Results 1 to 9 of 9

Thread: Is this Lloyd Loar's handwriting on this Gibson label?

  1. #1

    Default Is this Lloyd Loar's handwriting on this Gibson label?

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	1916-20 Gibson L-3.JPG 
Views:	508 
Size:	1.00 MB 
ID:	144327


    Hey all ... I need some help from the Lloyd Loar experts that frequent this wonderful forum.

    I have an circa 1920 Gibson L-3. I was showing it off to someone the other day that happened to notice something I've never noticed before.

    First, the areas to fill in on the Gibson label were all filled in using a pencil. They are all very clear, and in the right light you can see everything in great detail. For the record, the guitar is completely 100% original (including the finish, tuners and tortoiseshell pickguard), and in GREAT shape. There are three professionally repaired cracks; two on the top and one on the back. The neck is near perfect, with original frets. It needs nothing, and could be played professionally right now. On a scale of 1 to 10, I would grade this guitar a solid 7 to 7.5, and possibly as high as an 8.

    Second, upon closer inspection the written letter "L" in "L-3", which is written where it says "Style" on the label, is a cursive letter that bears a striking resemblance to the "L"s in Lloyd Loar's signature on other Gibson labels from this era. I've checked pictures of at least 75 to 100 photos of other know Lloyd Loar signed Gibson labels from this era, and they all look strikingly similar to the "L" on this label.

    Now, this could be just a mere coincidence. But the more I read about Lloyd Loar and his short time with Gibson, the models he worked on, and how he filled out the Gibson labels, the more I'm thinking this label was, in fact, filled out by Lloyd Loar.

    So, all that said, my questions are this:

    1) Do you guys think this is a label filled out by Lloyd Loar?

    2) If you do think it was filled out by Lloyd Loar, does that mean he would have actually built this instrument, or simply worked on specific parts of it?

    And last, 3) If Lloyd Loar did work on this guitar - or build it entirely - how much value does it actually add to it, if any?

    Obviously, I know it's not a Lloyd Loar mandolin. But, I have read in several books that he did build other instruments in his early days with Gibson. Those pre-mandolin instruments, however, are not addressed in price guides or other reference books on Gibson.

    Any information would be very useful. And thanks to all in advance for your time and consideration. I do appreciate it.

  2. #2
    Registered User houseworker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Norfolk, England
    Posts
    1,372

    Default Re: Is this Lloyd Loar's handwriting on this Gibson label?

    That label wasn't filled out by Lloyd Loar.

    Lloyd Loar didn't make any part of your L-3.

  3. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to houseworker For This Useful Post:


  4. #3
    Oval holes are cool David Lewis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    1,466

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BluesVintageGuitars View Post
    <img src="http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=144327"/> Hey all ... I need some help from the Lloyd Loar experts that frequent this wonderful forum. I have an circa 1920 Gibson L-3. I was showing it off to someone the other day that happened to notice something I've never noticed before. First, the areas to fill in on the Gibson label were all filled in using a pencil. They are all very clear, and in the right light you can see everything in great detail. For the record, the guitar is completely 100% original (including the finish, tuners and tortoiseshell pickguard), and in GREAT shape. There are three professionally repaired cracks; two on the top and one on the back. The neck is near perfect, with original frets. It needs nothing, and could be played professionally right now. On a scale of 1 to 10, I would grade this guitar a solid 7 to 7.5, and possibly as high as an 8. Second, upon closer inspection the written letter "L" in "L-3", which is written where it says "Style" on the label, is a cursive letter that bears a striking resemblance to the "L"s in Lloyd Loar's signature on other Gibson labels from this era. I've checked pictures of at least 75 to 100 photos of other know Lloyd Loar signed Gibson labels from this era, and they all look strikingly similar to the "L" on this label. Now, this could be just a mere coincidence. But the more I read about Lloyd Loar and his short time with Gibson, the models he worked on, and how he filled out the Gibson labels, the more I'm thinking this label was, in fact, filled out by Lloyd Loar. So, all that said, my questions are this: 1) Do you guys think this is a label filled out by Lloyd Loar? 2) If you do think it was filled out by Lloyd Loar, does that mean he would have actually built this instrument, or simply worked on specific parts of it? And last, 3) If Lloyd Loar did work on this guitar - or build it entirely - how much value does it actually add to it, if any? Obviously, I know it's not a Lloyd Loar mandolin. But, I have read in several books that he did build other instruments in his early days with Gibson. Those pre-mandolin instruments, however, are not addressed in price guides or other reference books on Gibson. Any information would be very useful. And thanks to all in advance for your time and consideration. I do appreciate it.

    as many will tell you, Lloyd Loar didn't actually build any instruments: he consulted on the build and then signed off on those made to his specifications.

    As to whether it's a loar signature: I'll leave that to experts.
    JBovier ELS; Epiphone MM-50 VN; Epiphone MM-40L; Gretsch New Yorker G9310; Washburn M1SDLB;

    Fender Nashville Deluxe Telecaster; Squier Modified Vintage Cabronita Telecaster; Gretsch 5420T; Fender Tim Armstrong Hellcat: Washburn Banjo B9; Ibanez RB 5string; Ibanez RB 4 string bass

    Pedalboard for ELS: Morley Cry baby Miniwah - Tuner - EHX Soul Food Overdrive - EHX Memory Toy analog Delay
    Fender Blues Jr Tweed; Fender Greta;

  5. #4

    Default Re: Is this Lloyd Loar's handwriting on this Gibson label?

    Handwriting was much more consistent back then than it is today....

  6. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Marty Jacobson For This Useful Post:


  7. #5
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Howell, NJ
    Posts
    26,875

    Default Re: Is this Lloyd Loar's handwriting on this Gibson label?

    In those days everybody's handwriting looked like that. From the Siminoff site:

    Many believe that Lloyd Loar was a luthier who built instruments at Gibson and then signed them. While it is true that he signed the labels, Loar was not a luthier, and he did not work at Gibson as an instrument builder. He was a musician who had an intense interest in musical acoustics, and in his role at Gibson, he guided the design and development of several instruments and accessories. With the exception that Loar was employed by Gibson as a contractor, his contribution to Gibson’s instrument line was similar to that of Les Paul (1915-2009) whose ideas and input led to Gibson’s growth and expansion in solidbody electric guitars.
    The value is just about what one is willing to pay for an L3, nothing less, nothing more.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

  8. #6
    Registered User Hendrik Ahrend's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Leer, Northern Germany
    Posts
    1,554

    Default Re: Is this Lloyd Loar's handwriting on this Gibson label?

    I agree with any of the answers above. On top of that, the "ar" in "Guitar" doesn't look like any "ar" in "Loar".

  9. #7
    Registered User houseworker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Norfolk, England
    Posts
    1,372

    Default Re: Is this Lloyd Loar's handwriting on this Gibson label?

    Quote Originally Posted by BluesVintageGuitars View Post
    But the more I read about Lloyd Loar and his short time with Gibson, the models he worked on, and how he filled out the Gibson labels, the more I'm thinking this label was, in fact, filled out by Lloyd Loar.

    But, I have read in several books that he did build other instruments in his early days with Gibson. Those pre-mandolin instruments, however, are not addressed in price guides or other reference books on Gibson.
    Would you care to share the details on those "several books"?

  10. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to houseworker For This Useful Post:


  11. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    4,881

    Default Re: Is this Lloyd Loar's handwriting on this Gibson label?

    I have no real knowledge of where I heard this but I am under the impression that Loar started signing the L guitars with the L-5 model and I assume the L-3 was before that time...This information should be available on the Internet somewhere...There was a thread here on The Cafe that listed what instruments Loar signed, maybe someone with more time than I have will look it up and post it...

    Willie

  12. #9
    Registered User Joe Spann's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Nashville. TN
    Posts
    149

    Default Re: Is this Lloyd Loar's handwriting on this Gibson label?

    I believe the handwriting on the Gibson guarantee labels from 1920 is that of Jimmy Johnstone, head of the Stringing Department.

    Joe

  13. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Joe Spann For This Useful Post:


Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •