charango to mandolin

[billkilpatrick]

i'd like to convert my charango to a mandolin. i've been talking about it for quite a while and the only reason i haven't done so already is because i'm not sure if the structure of the charango will support the increase in tension created by tuning it to 5ths.

i'll probably stick with nylon strings.

could i ask those of you who build mandolins if you have any suggestions or advise to offer?

i was thinking of changing the fixed bridge for a floating bridge with endplate. do you think that's necessary? if so, what would be the best way to attach an endplate to an inward sloping, oval shaped bowl?

the charango i'd like to convert is made from a single piece of solid wood, not an armadillo. i'll see if i can post a picture to give you some idea.

any help would be very much appreciated.

thank you - bill

[billkilpatrick]

here's one similar to the one i want to convert:

[krishna]

Bill, when I first started out 25 years ago, I had similar intentions for, like 5 or 6 instruments. All of them were turned from functional,decent instruments,into dedicated wall ornaments (all of which have long ago been thrown into the garbage)......not that I did'nt learn a few things though.. sooo ,if I may ask, why in the world, would you want to turn an already functional instrument into something entirely different? #I know part of my thinking that this is a WRONG thing to do, is because I have wanted a Charango for years, and have not been able to find one, so take all that I think and say to you here with #maybe, a grain of salt. If you need a project, go to the 'cheap mandolin kit' thread and buy one. #It's only 100 bucks! If you have just been staring at that poor instrument with it's #(probable) #construction/destruction #in mind, then sell the thing ! On actually doing this project, there are many problems, not the least of which is the structure (lack of it) of the top. The 3 Charangos I have seen have no bracing inside, and,even with plastic strings, I'm not sure it would last more than a certain period of time. The fingerboard will have to be taken off, maybe a truss rod, or stiffener of some kind put in,a wedge of wood installed under fingerboard to raise it so you can put a floating bridge on. #I did'nt even talk about how you will profile the neck to close to mando shape (taking wood off sides on neck) And what about the now extra set of 2 machines?... OK, so now you know what I think. ..Kerry.... Also, taking off the old bridge will likely take up a bit of wood too, as will taking off the sides of the fingerboard over the top...

[arbarnhart]

If you tune to 5ths with strings appropriate to the length and note range, there will be no increase in tension. An alternate tuning is no big deal. If you plan to use the same strings, you are more likely to break them than get too much tension. I thought you were going to mando strings when you posted this before. Since you say you will stick with nylon, I don't see the problem.

I would not mess with the bridge until I had tried strings that gave it the tuning you want. My guess is that you will end up using some combination of uke strings (probably some from a soprano and some from an alto set) to get the tuning and then it will sound more like a uke than a mando. You might find classical guitar strings that fit the bill.

[billkilpatrick]

i feel like one of those toys dogs that bobs its head up and down with the motion of the car - i've been thinking "yes, of course ..." with each successive post.

discovering the mandolin happened to coincide with an understanding of music theory and tuning in 4ths - the charango's present tuning - seemed like a step backwards. hence the desire to change to 5ths.

i bought some charango strings from "the thinman" in california which he had adapted to a 5c. mandolin tuning. the only reason i didn't put them on immediately was the uncertainty of what increased tension might do to the structure. i'll try them out now and let you know how i get on.

thanks heaps guys - bill

[arbarnhart]

My first string instrument built ended up (pretty much by chance after various mods for learning and experimentation) being a 3 string domra after starting life as a dulcijo. For whatever reason, 3 string domras are typically tuned in 4ths while 4 string ones are tuned in 5ths. Seems backwards to me; the one with the fewest strings is further limited by tuning. Anyway, I tried the 4ths tuning for only a short while before going to 5ths. Maybe I am too analytical, but I really don't understand the benefits of 4th tuning. It's painful to read music and transcribe (to me anyway). With 5ths tuning, a lot of times I am not really reading music but just doing the "two staff lines is one string" relative to whatever base note (that I really did have to think about for a couple of seconds) makes sense for the tune. Transcription is just picking a base note and staff line that really don't match. I know how to read music, but I like not having to truly read it to play.