Is anyone else watching this interesting Regal?

[Cary Fagan]

An attractive instrument; I've not seen one like it. Does it look like it has a carved top? The back appears to be maple.

Judging by the bidding there's some interest in it.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Vint...3D371570425940

[Bill Kammerzell]

An attractive instrument; I've not seen one like it. Does it look like it has a carved top? The back appears to be maple.

Judging by the bidding there's some interest in it.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Vint...3D371570425940

Of late, there have been a few Regal Mandolins, popping up at EBay. Saw one the guy was asking $195.00 and had a best offer feature. This is the most attention I've seen one get.

[Cary Fagan]

Regals show up all the time but I've not seen one like this before.

[HonketyHank]

It does look nice. I'm watching, but probably not bidding.

[Bill Kammerzell]

Regals show up all the time but I've not seen one like this before.

Amazing. Over $625.00 with the shipping. I wouldn't have thought that.

[MikeEdgerton]

Regal is best known for their inexpensive instruments but they had the capacity and ability to build some very nice instruments. They seem to come out of the woodwork now and again. Bob Carlin's book Regal Musical Instruments: 1895-1955 is an excellent source of information.

For posterity:

[Jim Garber]

This similar one appeared on eBay in November of 2013:

[brunello97]

Thanks, Jim.

Unless the photos are distorted the "two-point" geometry on these two versions of the Regal two points are distinctly different.

The extended fretboard on the recently posted Regal is especially interesting. Looks like a compensated bridge rather than the beefy adjustable one on the Nov '13 model. Also what looks like a Washburn tailpiece--though no telling if that was original.

Mick

[MikeEdgerton]

Yeah, I noticed it wasn't the expected Waverly Cloud cover. Regal used at least three different Waverly style tailpieces and I do believe the covers were interchangeable.

[mrmando]

There was a nice-looking reverse scroll mandolin on Craigslist a few days ago ... similar build quality to the 2-point currently on eBay. Seller wanted only $150.

[brunello97]

Bob Carlin's book Regal Musical Instruments: 1895-1955 is an excellent source of information.

After spending some time with Bob's book no exact match shows up for Cary's example. The Regal Jim posted is a Model 255.

The extra-extended fretboard does show up on a flat-top / oval hole.

Bob refers to the sans Smurf-scroll as the "Ultra Grand", though to my eye, the two examples we are looking at have different body shapes. Cary's post looks more Bacon-esque.

An interesting hybrid of a number of Regals from the period.

Mick

[Bill Kammerzell]

"Cary's post looks more Bacon-esque."

Along the lines of the Professional, or Professional Artist models?

[Cary Fagan]

The label says "Custom." Could it be a one-off? I don't have the Regal book on hand; does it say anything about this?

[Jeff Mando]

Doubtful it is a one-off. Although, Regal did have a "custom shop" as such, before "custom shop" was a common term.....as did Gibson, Harmony, Martin, Fender, etc......quite common for someone to request a personalized guitar, back then. There were Regal made archtop jazz guitars, such as the Regal Prince, with 18-inch body width, that would rival the quality and beauty of late 30's Gibson Super 400 and L-5's of the day. There were some in the Chinery collection and pictured in the book. Not sure if this mandolin would "make the grade", although quite nice.

[brunello97]

"Cary's post looks more Bacon-esque."

Along the lines of the Professional, or Professional Artist models?

Not like either of these in particular, obviously, but the overall geometry positions the two points lower with a more gentle curve back to the neck as is in the basic geometry of the Bacon and B+D Regal models as compared with the aforementioned 225 model or the "flat" top / flat back two-point Regals.

My assumption (and I'm not a builder) is that the rim set of these mandolins goes into a mold / form to form the basic body profile. I imagine it might be possible to put different types of tops (flat, canted, formed, carved) onto a given rim set.

I don't mean to project into something I don't know a whole lot about, but even a "custom" mandolin would require some jigs / molds / formwork for the body... in which case others--perhaps with various details--or tops--could be made from it.

I assume this is why mandolins Martin made for other people (Ditson, Stewart, etc.) still look like Martin mandolins. I bought just such an un-topped/backed rim with neck and tail block in place (in this case, a Martin-to-be). Been thinking about adding a carved top / back to it.

Mick

[Bill Kammerzell]

Not like either of these in particular, obviously, but the overall geometry positions the two points lower with a more gentle curve back to the neck as is in the basic geometry of the Bacon and B+D Regal models as compared with the aforementioned 225 model or the "flat" top / flat back two-point Regals.

My assumption (and I'm not a builder) is that the rim set of these mandolins goes into a mold / form to form the basic body profile. I imagine it might be possible to put different types of tops (flat, canted, formed, carved) onto a given rim set.

I don't mean to project into something I don't know a whole lot about, but even a "custom" mandolin would require some jigs / molds / formwork for the body... in which case others--perhaps with various details--or tops--could be made from it.

I assume this is why mandolins Martin made for other people (Ditson, Stewart, etc.) still look like Martin mandolins. I bought just such an un-topped/backed rim with neck and tail block in place (in this case, a Martin-to-be). Been thinking about adding a carved top / back to it.

Mick

Far as I knew Bacon only made those two models and the model I have, the Amateur. Those two did have the points. I'm hoping my Amateur does as well at auction this week as this Regal did.

[brunello97]

Far as I knew Bacon only made those two models and the model I have, the Amateur. Those two did have the points. I'm hoping my Amateur does as well at auction this week as this Regal did.

Me, too! I'm sure I don't understand what Regal's relationship was with Bacon and / or Bacon and Day. Could be I am not doing a close enough reading of Bob's book. He goes into it on pages 81-89. I don't think he is implying that Regal made the higher end Bacon models.

Mick

[Bill Kammerzell]

Me, too! I'm sure I don't understand what Regal's relationship was with Bacon and / or Bacon and Day. Could be I am not doing a close enough reading of Bob's book. He goes into it on pages 81-89. I don't think he is implying that Regal made the higher end Bacon models.

Mick

For what it is worth, I saw a Bacon timeline, somewhere on line. (Wish I could find it now.) They made two models of mandolins in 1922. Prior to that they only made banjos. It looked to me like they only made mandolins until about 1928. Sometime later there was a purchase of their company by Gretsch. Of course I could not vouch for the accuracy of the timeline.

[Bill Kammerzell]

Me, too! I'm sure I don't understand what Regal's relationship was with Bacon and / or Bacon and Day. Could be I am not doing a close enough reading of Bob's book. He goes into it on pages 81-89. I don't think he is implying that Regal made the higher end Bacon models.

Mick

Bacon Timeline from Mugwamps. Link. No mention of Regal. Only Gretsch.

http://www.mugwumps.com/BaconSerialNumbers.html

It was 1920 they announced 2 arch top mandolins. I recall a 1928 catalog with nothing but banjos.

[brunello97]

Yeah. Not to confuse things, we're talking about a decade plus apart here.

Here's the quote from Bob Carlin's book:

"Where Regal really excelled were in a line made for the Bacon Banjo Company of Groton, Connecticut. Although Bacon had previously marketed instruments designed for them by prominent mandolinist William Place, Jr.m which look like the work of Lyon and Healy (we know that they weren't made by Bacon themselves, although it is unclear who actually did make them), the Bacon Company had not shown mandolins in their catalogues since 1929 / 1930.

From around 1936 through 1939, Regal under the "B&D moniker, built mandolins that were completely different from anything else on the market. The top end instruments were eye-popping in their appointments, art deco to-the-max and more akin to the archtop guitars also being produced by Regal under the Bacon & Day label. In their promotional literature, Bacon poured on the hyperbole. 'Bacon & Day Mandolins,' stated their catalogue circa 1936, 'set new heights of tonal beauty. .... and all models, from the lowest priced up, are characteristic of the fine quality always associated with the names of Bacon and Day."

Bob goes on to describe the B&D lines, some of which (such as the 255 model Jim posted,) were also marketed with a Regal label.

My original "Bacon-esque" line seems to have derailed the conversation unfortunately. If you lop off the Smurf Scroll form the B&D Sultana model, you wind up with a body geometry somewhat closer to Cary's version than the 225 model is. I'll leave it at that before I make a bigger hash of things.

Mick

[Bill Kammerzell]

Yeah. Not to confuse things, we're talking about a decade plus apart here.

Here's the quote from Bob Carlin's book:

"Where Regal really excelled were in a line made for the Bacon Banjo Company of Groton, Connecticut. Although Bacon had previously marketed instruments designed for them by prominent mandolinist William Place, Jr.m which look like the work of Lyon and Healy (we know that they weren't made by Bacon themselves, although it is unclear who actually did make them), the Bacon Company had not shown mandolins in their catalogues since 1929 / 1930.

From around 1936 through 1939, Regal under the "B&D moniker, built mandolins that were completely different from anything else on the market. The top end instruments were eye-popping in their appointments, art deco to-the-max and more akin to the archtop guitars also being produced by Regal under the Bacon & Day label. In their promotional literature, Bacon poured on the hyperbole. 'Bacon & Day Mandolins,' stated their catalogue circa 1936, 'set new heights of tonal beauty. .... and all models, from the lowest priced up, are characteristic of the fine quality always associated with the names of Bacon and Day."

Bob goes on to describe the B&D lines, some of which (such as the 255 model Jim posted,) were also marketed with a Regal label.

My original "Bacon-esque" line seems to have derailed the conversation unfortunately. If you lop off the Smurf Scroll form the B&D Sultana model, you wind up with a body geometry somewhat closer to Cary's version than the 225 model is. I'll leave it at that before I make a bigger hash of things.

Mick

Interesting.

[MikeEdgerton]

Well, at least nobody pronounced it a Larson.

[Cary Fagan]

All fascinating. I'm not familiar with Bacon and Day, so I've learned something.

[Bill Kammerzell]

All fascinating. I'm not familiar with Bacon and Day, so I've learned something.

As far as I know, in the teens and the 1920's there was no "Day" attached to the company name. That came later as Mick's post shows. Inside the mandolin I have the label says "The Bacon Amateur Mandolin." It goes on to refer to the company, "The Bacon Banjo Company Inc. Groton, Connecticut U.S.A." I would guess of late, David Grisman has helped popularize the Bacon Mandolin, somewhat. He owns a couple, and for the line he endorses with Eastman Strings, he's had them design at least one Bacon copy, which I believe is the Bacon Artist Professional.

[allenhopkins]

... David Grisman has helped popularize the Bacon Mandolin...for the line he endorses with Eastman Strings, he's had them design at least one Bacon copy, which I believe is the Bacon Artist Professional.

It's the Eastman DGM-2; I bought one at Bernunzio's, and it's a real nice mandolin.