Better alternatives to Duco Cement...looking fopr new suggestions

[Darryl Wolfe]

Hello Guys and Gals,

I believe we have discussed this in the past, but let's do it again.

I have always used Duco cement on my pickguard builds. All of my materials are old school celluloid plastics.

Starting about 8-10 years ago, the Duco formulation changed a bit and it no longer "welded" as good straight from the tube. To combat that, I started thinning it with acetone and carefully priming both surfaces with acetone prior to applying the Duco mixture.

Now that I am about out of may case of Duco cement, my question is what alternatives are there. What is your recent experience.

Please try to keep recommendations focused on stuff that truly welds and is a solvent to the materials I utilize or ideas to improve what I do. Thanks in advance

Darryl

[Spruce]

[HoGo]

I use this for celluloid.
It's nitrocellulose based glue for models, likely just celluloid dissolved in acetone. I'm making my own picks out of thinner celluloid pics by laminating two or three layers under pressure and used this on last batch. It seemed to really dissolve the celluloid fi I left too much of the stuff on for more than few seconds. This glue has been used by my father and I used it as a kid for model making 25 years ago. Probably much like the old style DUCO.
I think I recommended it in your previous thread but the problem of getting it over to your side of pond is still there... Perhaps someone travelling from the Czech Republic or Slovakia (I'm not sure this stuff is sold anywhere else) could take some in his checked luggage... Or some sort of non-air shipping?

[Graham McDonald]

Weld-on 16 made in California seems to work. I get mine from an acrylic/perspex fabricator.

Cheers

[Jim Hilburn]

I recently removed some binding that had been put on with new Duco, and believe me, it was very well set. Now this was binding to wood, not binding to celluloid pickguard material. My biggest problem there is the way it distorts the plastic along the joint. So maybe CA for that, but then you loose the melt together aspect.
Bottom line, I'm satisfied with Duco and get it in tubes instead of bottles. I think it stays fresher longer that way.

[Oliver A.]

Hi Darryl. Here is my hands down favorite. It's called UHU HART (pronounced yoohoo) I can no longer find it in Canada so I import it from the manufacturer in Germany. It's that good.

[CarlM]

Another possibility is 3M Emblem and Trim Adhesive which is sold at auto parts stores. I have not used it on instruments but have used it for other difficult plastic to metal or plastic to wood bonds. I have gotten it at Autozone and Advanced Auto.

[Darryl Wolfe]

Thanks for the input. After investigating the UHU it appears that it is in fact not stocked in US...easily buyable on Amazon and Ebay, but ships from overseas

[resophonic]

I have been using and really like the FCA glue from LMI.

http://www.lmii.com/products/finishi...ding-adhesives

[Spruce]

Another possibility is 3M Emblem and Trim Adhesive which is sold at auto parts stores. I have not used it on instruments but have used it for other difficult plastic to metal or plastic to wood bonds. I have gotten it at Autozone and Advanced Auto.

+1, but I haven't used Duco in 25 years, so do not have a hands-on comparison...

[amowry]

Darryl, could you just hold/tape the binding in place and then brush acetone onto the joint? I laminate binding that way all the time, and it works really well, survives heating, bending, etc. The acetone causes a little swelling, but I think that's mostly gone after a few days, and I'm not sure you'd notice it on pickguards where it's all the same material so it's swelling and shrinking uniformly.

Also, I know you want something that welds the celluloid, but I use thin CA on my pickguards, fretboards, etc., and the brand I use (Bob Smith Industries) does melt celluloid a little, so I think it's basically welding it together. I haven't seen or heard of it failing. It's also instant, so there's no need for tape. I do use binding "glop" or a drop of acetone at the miters.

[j. condino]

Yup, old school acetone. The way D'Aquisto and D'Angelico got those 7 layer bindings to adhere was to not be afraid and just dip the whole thing and half your hand in the bucket of acetone and swish it all around and then press to fit, just like this one in the collection at the Metropolitain Museum of Art. If you look close when you have it in hand, you can even see the imprint of his fingers on the softened binding. But....if you want to live past 57 years old there may be a safer alternative today.

I had a student who recently bought some of the reformulated Ducp for binding work; the results were pretty much useless. No matter how long I live or how many instruments I build, I'll never understand why people insist on paying a premium for well seasoned, exceptional tonewoods and then proceed to chisel away the fine material and replace it with plastic and shell and other useless junk that dampens the sound production all in the name of tradition....

j.
www.condino.com

[Jim Hilburn]

I'd be interested in what you mean by useless. I do all my sound damping bindings with Duco and it seems quite useful to me. And I don't get fingerprints in my binding either.

[HoGo]

I'd be interested in what you mean by useless. I do all my sound damping bindings with Duco and it seems quite useful to me. And I don't get fingerprints in my binding either.

Sometimes it's not about what materials you use but HOW do you use those materials...

Oliver, I wonder what postal service was used to ship the glue to you from Germany?
Every shipper has strict NO in their rules to any flammable substance. (though nail polish seems to be accepted even on plane evebn though it is much the same as these glues)

[Oliver A.]

Adrian, here's a link to the German supplier that I bought mine from quite recently. They shipped it to Canada without any problems.
http://www.uhu-profishop.de/uhu-hart-tube-35g.html

[HoGo]

Adrian, here's a link to the German supplier that I bought mine from quite recently. They shipped it to Canada without any problems.
http://www.uhu-profishop.de/uhu-hart-tube-35g.html

They seem to be using DHL for shipping. Interesting that DHL prohibits shipping of flamable substances...

Darryl, perhaps you can try ordering Kanagom from one of many Czech internet suppliers (model making, paint or office supplies). Costt less than a dollar per tube, may be worth trying. It melts celluloid really well.

[Jim Hilburn]

When I used to bond binding strips together to get sidelines, to me staight acetone was pretty messy so that's when I would make thin Duco so it would cling instead of run. When Bill James started selling binding with the inlayed black side lines I didn't have to worry about making my own so the only thing I had to do with Duco was affixing binding to the instrument and I still swear by Duco for that job. No looking all over the world, just the local hardware store.

[Hendrik Ahrend]

Hi Darryl. Here is my hands down favorite. It's called UHU HART (pronounced yoohoo) I can no longer find it in Canada so I import it from the manufacturer in Germany. It's that good.

Seems like "oohoo" (how I have pronounced it since my early childhood) is comparable to the stuff Adrian suggested; here's the data sheet: http://www.uhu-profi.de/uploads/tx_i...t_tds_hart.pdf

[HoGo]

Seems like "oohoo" (how I have pronounced it since my early childhood) is comparable to the stuff Adrian suggested; here's the data sheet: http://www.uhu-profi.de/uploads/tx_i...t_tds_hart.pdf

Yes, it looks like celluloid in mix of solvents. Every region seems to heve their own version of "Duco".
UHU is available here, I'll try to get it and compare the two sometimes.

[PJ Doland]

But....if you want to live past 57 years old there may be a safer alternative today.

Is it kind of disturbing how many luthiers have died at relatively young ages? I wonder if a lot of builders still underestimate the risk factors associated with finishing, dust exposure, etc.

[Bernie Daniel]

Is it kind of disturbing how many luthiers have died at relatively young ages? I wonder if a lot of builders still underestimate the risk factors associated with finishing, dust exposure, etc.

Unless you have actuarial data and a valid cohort so that you can do a proper epidemiological study on those risks speculation like that is just that, speculation, and probably not useful for anyone.

Years ago when the link between asbestos exposure, cigarette smoking and mesothelioma & lung cancer was first becoming apparent in the 1970's the US Public Health Service went to hundreds of former WWII ship builders and informed them that there was a good chance that they might develop lung cancer. When the workers rightfully ask what can we do to prevent it of course Health Service had no answer for them because of course there was none. So why tell them? For many of these unfortunate men their lives essentially ended the day the government told them of their looming "death sentence" --- at least one is known to have committed suicide as a result.

[Bernie Daniel]

No one seems to have mentioned "binding mud". I use that and it seems to work well. Just dissolve a strip of the binding you plan to use in acetone and paint it on with a brush - works good for me.

[Darryl Wolfe]

Thank you for the links...I am going to get the Uhu stuff to try out

Recapping a bit here...I have no problem with Duco...because I now thin it and brush it on. I did not used to have to do that. I agree that there is a bit of useless as James said when you simply try to use it out of the tube, hence the discussion.

My pickguards are noted for their authenticity. That includes the obvious solvent welded look and shrinkage. If I wanted them OCD perfect, I would be using different materials and cyano glues

[lenf12]

My pickguards are noted for their authenticity.

I totally agree. I have one on a '56 F-12 and it looks great!!

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

[Nick Gellie]

You can get Uhu-Hart glue right here in Australia on Ebay Au:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2-Packs-U...-/181616279962