How do you justify a high end mandolin? Or do you?

[blauserk]

I'm with the wise Shaun Garrity on this one. A special musical instrument is something transcendent, a taste of the divine. I've had many other hobbies, and appreciate quality in all of them, but extraordinary musical instruments, particularly acoustic ones, are to be cherished. The first Gilchrist I played was something special--though "just" a Model 1, I had trouble putting in its case, because I wanted to strum it just one more time, to hear the notes decay. There's no jet ski or wine or car that good in my book.

The difference between that and a simply good instrument is like the difference between lightning and a lightning bug. And it is worth scrimping elsewhere to make it happen. As Frank Lloyd Wright said, "give me the luxuries in life and I will gladly forego the necessities."

[Franc Homier Lieu]

I don't have a high end mandolin, so I don't need to justify it, but if I had to...

I would point out that 10K doesn't even get you that great a cello (relatively speaking), and that 3K gets you a good but not particularly high end violin bow.

[JFDilmando]

lots of great thoughts here... one additional line of thought that hasn't been mentioned.... I have gone down the MAS path for all the years that I have been playing.... I play a lot, and it is an important part of my life, as it is yours as you say. I have purchased MANY "this is one of the best" instruments, for playing pleasure... and I have found more, after each wonderful addition.... AND... low and behold, what you have been playing, and enjoying for wonderful hours of music .... can be sold !!!! Often for more than you placed into it, years, or decades, or days before. and if not, for more, then for a reasonable fraction of what you paid. Really, don't think that your purchase is something final, that you HAVE to life with for the rest of your playing days.... it is reversible, for any reason that you might have down the road, to find another, to pay a medical bill, whatever. High end instruments, or any instruments, if taken care of, retain a great deal of their value, if not actually increasing. I would never say that one should think of it as an investment (some do), but it is not a question of funds spent and gone. Have I found my ultimate mandolin ? I think so, but then I found another that I talked myself into as well ... lol..... what fun !

[Travis Wilson]

I wrote this on the Cafe a while back:

I learned a long time ago when I was burning through inexpensive clarinets that a cheap instrument will almost always either play or sound cheap. I never regret spending money on a good musical instrument.

[Jeff Mando]

I think you can justify it in many creative ways, many examples already given here. The question does imply, however, that you might carry a sense of guilt for owning such an instrument, which I also understand, given the way I was raised. My father worked hard and was very frugal and could "afford" a brand new Cadillac, however he drove Buicks because he felt there was an implied snobbery to the Cadillac that he did not want to be associated with, although he felt they were excellent vehicles. We lived in a small community where everyone knew everyone, so appearances were important growing up. In a large city, this might not even be an issue, I don't know.

There is a story I like about Kurt Cobain, about when he first started to see a little success he was driving a vintage Ford Falcon and then bought a brand new Volvo. He ended up taking the Volvo back, because he felt self-conscious driving it. I think some of these conversations are really between you and your maker. Or perhaps you and your family.

For myself, I've always been attracted to vintage and used instruments. To the point I have an "unfair prejudice" in thinking it would really take an amazing "new" instrument to sound as good as my old ones......seasoned wood, etc., also the enjoyment I get from the history and who may have played it, a certain mental picture, I guess, the subject of another debate, of course.

The investment angle takes some of the risk away from your decision. Although, instruments are not as liquid as they once were, you shouldn't lose much if you buy something and decide it isn't for you.

A lot of the "collector/players" I know who were into the vintage thing early on, now seem to have "gotten over it" -- many now play new off the rack guitars on stage costing only a few hundred dollars -- after having owned some of World's most desirable and expensive instruments -- so maybe it works both ways, I'm not sure.

Good luck with your decision!

[Austin Bob]

I agree that if playing mandolin is your passion, then you should indulge if you can afford it. It's one thing to have to buy the best of everything because you have a low self esteem and buying stuff makes you feel better about yourself for a short time.

It's quite another to follow your passion if you can afford it. Don't make your family suffer, put aside money for retirement and give a bit of your time and money to charity, then go for it.

[Ron McMillan]

I agree with the argument that we're a long time dead, and there's no point in denying ourselves pleasures when we are able to enjoy them. But if it's top-drawer sound you want, a used Ellis A5 at half the ten-thousand-dollar budget will knock most 10k mandolins out of the park.

I know, it's complicated

[TEvans]

Ron is right. I bit the bullet and got an Ellis A5 with only 2 years of playing under my belt. I knew it was a passion of mine, and mandolin just captivated (and still does!) my mind.

And i have played some very high end mandolins, all that never quite sounded as great to me as my Ellis.

That being said, check out A models. You'll get the same mandolin, but for half of the ole curly q models.

Enjoy the search for your new life-long friend!

[almeriastrings]

W
Every time I think I need a $10,000 mandolin, I watch David Benedict do one of his Mandolin Mondays on his $2500 Flatiron... He makes it sing like an angel.

I think you have to put these older Flatirons in context. They are a spectacular value right now for a variety of reasons, mostly to do with the fact they have Flatiron written on them, not Gibson. However, they are essentially a Gibson F-5L. Many of them made on the same line, by the same people, in the same plant, with the same materials. So in that sense, while not quite a $10K mandolin, they do offer the 'equivalence' of what is now an $8,799 instrument....

The fact you can find them on the used market for much, much less is a sort of lucky coincidence for those seeking a very good mandolin without blowing a lot of money. Ive had them side-by side with Gibson A5's and F5's and I'd definitely place them as equals in every sense, especially the latter ones from Nashville.

Incidentally, I have played a lot of $5K range F-style instruments, and while most were really good, I would not (myself) say any matched the performance of say, an Ellis, Gilchrist or Heiden. If funds were an issue, I'd be going for an A-style by one of these.

[Petrus]

Well, I'm convinced. Now getting ready to fill the back of my pickup with some spending cash, and I'm off to Carter Vintage! "I'll take 'em all."

[Nick Gellie]

You don't. As my father used to say 'No excuses, no explanation needed - you let your conscience dictate whether you go ahead and buy it or not'. As for me I don't need or want a high end mandolin costing lots of money. I have a family and I need pay the bills. I am happy with my two $2000 plus mandolins and Irish bouzoukis (I have three fiddles which cost less than a $1000 each on top of those). You can get a high end bouzouki for 2000 Euros, why pay anymore? The same goes for a mandolin. A Collings MT mandolin is a high end mandolin as far as I am concerned. Having gone through a few mandolins iincluding one high end one, I think I know what I am talking about.

On another note, we need to be careful how we raise other cafe members' expectations about high end mandolins. Much of the high end is in the fit and finish and not necessarily in the tone or volume. I think it is great to talk about how wonderful an Ellis, Nugget, Dudenbostel or Gilchrist is from one's own experience but that does not necessarily translate into it suiting other aspiring mandolin players. I have a Kentucky friend who has gone through many mandolins. In the end he has settled for a Collings MT mandolin because he loves the way it plays and sounds in a band situation. My current A-5 is on par with a Northfield Model M or a Collings MT. For me it is a high end mandolin.

[Dagger Gordon]

You don't. As my father used to say 'No excuses, no explanation needed - you let your conscience dictate whether you go ahead and buy it or not'. As for me I don't need or want a high end mandolin costing lots of money. I have a family and I need pay the bills. I am happy with my two $2000 plus mandolins and Irish bouzoukis (I have three fiddles which cost less than a $1000 each on top of those). You can get a high end bouzouki for 2000 Euros, why pay anymore? The same goes for a mandolin. A Collings MT mandolin is a high end mandolin as far as I am concerned. Having gone through a few mandolins iincluding one high end one, I think I know what I am talking about.

On another note, we need to be careful how we raise other cafe members' expectations about high end mandolins. Much of the high end is in the fit and finish and not necessarily in the tone or volume. I think it is great to talk about how wonderful an Ellis, Nugget, Dudenbostel or Gilchrist is from one's own experience but that does not necessarily translate into it suiting other aspiring mandolin players. I have a Kentucky friend who has gone through many mandolins. In the end he has settled for a Collings MT mandolin because he loves the way it plays and sounds in a band situation. My current A-5 is on par with a Northfield Model M or a Collings MT. For me it is a high end mandolin.

I kind of agree about a Collings MT. If you take your playing as seriously as you do, you need something at least as good as that. I think you definitely deserve that.

After that, then it's up to you.

[Paul Busman]

For me, I can't justify it. I have a Fullerton Gloucester that I bought at closeout that to my ears and fingers plays beautifully. As a trade for one of my wooden penny whistles I had the fingerboard radiused, re-fretted and a custom made Red Henry bridge fitted.
For an oval hole sound I picked up one of the original Breedlove Crossovers which I really like. Finally, I have an Eastwood mandocaster which I play in a band and have a blast with. For the cost of what people here call a modest mandolin I have three instruments that suit me just fine. A while back I made a trip to Elderly and played just about everything in the house. Did I like anything better than my own instruments? Some, but not all that many, and certainly not enough better for me to want to spend the money. But that's just me.
The only high instruments of any kind that I own are penny whistles. Now, in the whistle world, high end is a whole lot less than it is in the mandolin world and besides-- I made them myself

[cayuga red]

The OP describes himself as a "frugal cheapskate ." Perhaps a better route to take is to go with the mandolin an increasing number of pros play- the Loar LM 600 VS. I suggest you contact Robert Fear who knows this model better than anyone. He also knows how to set them up properly. My guess is you will sleep a lot better knowing you stuck to your values and that you purchased a terrific new instrument. Wishing you good luck and good health!

[chris.burcher]

Thank you for y'alls thought-provoking replies!

Finding a great $5k A style is not out of the question, it just hasn't happened. I haven't played an Ellis and am suspicious of the hype but I will be able to play one before making the final decision. And a few others as well. For what I am looking for, with very broad margins of error to include some other things I wouldn't normally consider, there are maybe 8-9 mandolins in Nashville to play, and at least 5 on a shorter NC day trip. But, I have a strong feeling, based on knowing myself, that I'll long for the scroll and points. I've been down this road before, playing A's two-points, and F5s through time as my regular mando. MY lifetime mandolin is a sidebound F5. I think they're purty.

Based on my history and personality I think I"m better off stepping ahead a small leap. i've really enjoyed the ride through the mandolins I've owned. I think part of entering the $5k price point is either having to drive to play or pay to ship for a trial period. Never really considered the trial period. Again, you don't go buy a puppy, but still.

Thanks for the encouragement and for helping me center myself. Keep 'em coming - I may just take the leap anyway

[darrylicshon]

I have spent 3k on a few guitars in my life that's the most i have spent on an musical instrument. Still have a few i could sell for 2k each or close to that. I'm trying not to sell one to buy my mandolin.

I have lots of mandolins but none highend , my best is my J Bovier F5-T i really like it , but have been trying to save money for a upgrade, but i keep spending the money on other needs. I have taken my Bovier and compared it to lots of other mandos sofar i have found one better to me. I don't have alot of choices where I'm at i have compared to a few gibsons and they were very close , one worse so to spend many thousands and not get what i want means pass on the few gibsons i have tried.
At first i was thinking about a 5k mandolin but now I'm thinking used will be the best bet. I am planning a trip to Nashville when i have anougth saved if i don't find what i want i probably will have a custom built the way i want, i've talked to a few builders close to me can get what i want for 3k custom built.

To me i doubt I'll ever spent 10k on a instrument unless i win the lottery, but if you can afford it i say buy it if it will make you happy

[William Smith]

Life is too short for cheap mandolins or cheap wine! If you like it and can comfortably afford it, do it. You can't take money with you when you go and none of us are guaranteed a tomorrow!

You are are right my friend, I agree ya can't take $$$ with ya,and plus you do get what you pay for, I sure would rather play my Gil or rare Gibsons than a kentucky, and I've owned a number of low and "higher" end horns. I'm positive most higher end gourds sound better so if you can afford something with some snap go for it if its in your cards!

[Jeff Mando]

horns? gourds? ya lost me............

[ccravens]

Not many people (just one on this thread) have the attitude of regretting that they spent a lot of money on an amazing high-end instrument.

There are many more people that I have met or have interacted in threads that speak of their regret of not purchasing a high-end instrument when they had the chance because of the price.

I regret the few instruments that I passed on when I had the financial means to purchase them. Because you may not always have the means. Now I just have regrets and no instruments!

Don't live with regrets.

And financially speaking, if you purchase and do start to have regrets, a used, high end instrument (as someone has already said) will hold most of its value over time, making your experiment relatively inexpensive.

So, given those personal and financial considerations, I would advise a purchase.

[Tom Sanderson]

Each person's situation is different. For me, I'm single (divorced), kids (2) are grown up and on their own, I totally support myself. I don't have to justify to anyone else what I do with my money. It's totally up to me and no ones business or concern. To quote Cartman (Southpark) "I do what I want"

[bigskygirl]

Hi Chris, I too am an overthinker and a CPA but find it does come in handy at times. It sounds to me like you have thought this thru, it's not putting you into debt, you have provided for yourself and your family so what's the holdup. Asking here on the forum just gets you more indecision.

I played guitar since I was very young, when my dad was dying a few years ago I had my old beater Yamaha to play in the wee hours. After he passed I told my hubby I'd like to get a nice guitar and after search and consideration ended up with a Taylor 516 with a koa back and sides. I love it and when I play it makes me think of my dad...then I discovered the ukulele and played that a lot for my mom when I would travel to visit her. She passed away recently and I decided I wanted to get a nice uke so I ended up with a Kamaka tenor that I love...

Then...I discovered the mandolin, bought an Eastman 315 from a store going out of business and headed to Kaufman Kamp to learn to play. Well, that little thing has taken over and it's really all I play now. After taking lessons and playing lots of mandolins I said to hubby I'd like a nice mandolin. He supports me and my passions (his is fly-fishing) so I ended up ordering a Northfield F5M at his urging and love it!

My point is, go with your passions, I don't play guitar or uke much anymore but do try get them out once a week or so and I have the most wonderful time thinking of my mom and dad.

We didn't go into debt or overextend ourselves and after losing family and friends and our own health issues I realized I can't take any of it with me so I chose to be happy while I'm here. I would add that if you haven't already check out Greg Boyd's House of Fine Instruments...he has some fabulous mandolins available and he's a super guy...NFI, just a happy customer and friend.

[George R. Lane]

I wish I had your dilemma. I have a great Weber Yellowstone that sounds and plays great but, I always look through the classifieds and dream of owning a Red Diamond, Heiden, a Derrington Master Model or a Duff. My situation is I have raised my grand daughter and now her daughter, plus I have a small farm and a windshield repair business, so money is very tight. I would say life is short and if you truly love this Duff and the cost won't impact your life, then get off your butt and go and get it. Let it bring you and your family much happiness. Now go, go right now.

[Journeyman]

When I was young. A friend of mine had a cheap guitar that he was learning on. One day another friend dropped by, this guy was a pro musician. The pro picked up that cheap guitar and made it sound like the best guitar ever made! I personally believe that high end, expensive instruments are just the frosting part off the over all cake. Just my 2 cents.

[Marcus CA]

Not many people (just one on this thread) have the attitude of regretting that they spent a lot of money on an amazing high-end instrument.

Let's go negative here and assume that you are going to make the wrong decision. If you buy a high-end instrument and realize later that you shouldn't have, then you might lose a few thousand bucks when you go to sell it. (The classifieds are stuffed these days.). If you pass on this purchase, then you might face regret and longing. Which of those scenarios can you deal with more easily?

I've been fortunate to play a bunch of $5K+ mandolins over the past few years, and I've had varying reactions to them. They all were drop-dead gorgeous in materials and construction. However, with some, I felt the magic, and with others, I didn't --- even when from the same builder. So, it's great that you'll be able to try out a few different Duffs.

[Willie Poole]

I have been down this road so here is what I think...In years past I owned some high dollar mandolins and as I played more and more I found that a inexpensive mandolin did me just as well as a high dollar one and I play semi pro, there are some great sounding mandolins being made today that don`t cost an arm and a leg...Now if you are looking for an investment to maybe make a few dollars in the future than look into some big names, they should increase in value but if you are looking for something to satisfy your hobby I would suggest trying a lot of the less expensive instruments and I`ll bet you will find one that suits what you want and like as far as sound goes...Most of the non professionals just want that "Big name" for a status symbol because thats what the big boys all played...

Just my opinion and it looks like I am in a minority on here but you asked so I told you what I think....I don`t feel that spending money just because you have it is a way to think, I`m sure there are plenty of other things that it could be spent for that would mean more to all members of the family...

Willie