What is it that defines a mandolin?

[dhbailey]

I'm curious about what it is that defines and instrument as a "mandolin." I always thought it was that it was an instrument which had 4 pairs of strings, each pair tuned in unison and the 4 pairs tuned to match the 4 strings on a violin.

Which makes me wonder if a 4-string electric instrument can truly be called a mandolin.

So am I mistaken and is the real definition of "mandolin" simply any instrument with frets and is tuned like a violin?

[Loubrava]

Not sure about that one but one of my favorite definitions about things musical is from Kieth Richards is how you define a guitar player is, 3 strings, 2 fingers and 1 ####### (read as jerk). Sorry for stupid post
Lou (Ex guitar player)

[mrmando]

We've had this debate a few thousand times.

In Italy, a variety of instruments have gone by the name mandolino, with varying numbers of strings, different tunings, and strings not always paired. The Neapolitan 8-string instrument did not become the standard until the 19th century.

Today, of course, there are some Italians who swear that an instrument isn't a proper mandolin if it doesn't have a canted soundboard and a bowl-shaped back made out of staves. Which is ridiculous, I mean, who do those Italians think they are? It's not like they invented the thing.

[mrmando]

The whole question is worthy of a book-length discussion. Fortunately, one exists: http://www.amazon.com/Mandolin-Histo...2925813&sr=8-1

I helped with the funding for this book and I still need to finish reading it!

[Tom Wright]

I think the best definition is "a plucked instrument approximately violin-scale and tuned in fifths". That allows in my 5- and 10-string instruments as well as the large number of electric 4-stringers. It excludes 5- or 10-string instruments that are longer-scale.

A violin-scale instrument has a level of facility because of the small reaches that is heard in the kinds of playing that are comfortable and/or possible. We usually hear a certain class of chord voicings and a certain style of melodic playing. It is a picked violin as much as anything, and I think the doubled strings are a mechanical advantage for power but not inherently for sound. Because it is possible to tune it very carefully and pick it precisely the extra strings are not always heard.

[mrmando]

Ah, but you're leaving out the baroque, Venetian and Lombard mandolinos, none of which are tuned in fifths.

[pointpergame]

Ah, but you're leaving out the baroque, Venetian and Lombard mandolinos, none of which are tuned in fifths.

I think if you answer the question, "What is the definition of 'mandolin' throughout all of time," then that answer has to be qualified up one side and down the other. If the question is "What defines a modern mandolin in America?" that answer is easier and probably more useful.

BTW, If I remember correctly from my harpsichord days, the pairing of a string raises the volume by 3 db...which is double.

[Astro]

A dictionary ?

[mrmando]

If the question is "What defines a modern mandolin in America?" that answer is easier and probably more useful.

People still play and compose music for the baroque mandolino, even in America. But anyway, why the heck should any definition be confined to America?

I know a lot of people think U Srinivas wasn't really a mandolin player, but i would have liked to see one of them try to tell him so.

[Ivan Kelsall]

I was mulling over exactly the same question as the OP yesterday in response to the photo of the 5 string Elec.mandolin on the home page of the Cafe. To me,it's a similar thing to the names given to the 3 different banjo 'variants'.
From what we've been told,the actual 5th string was 'supposedly' added by Joel Sweeney,so the 'original' banjo which was a development of the 3 stringed ''Gourd banjo' had 4 strings ?.
So,if we're really pedantic about it,the 'banjo proper' is a 4 stringed instrument & the 5 string banjo is a 'variation'. But - that's not how it's currently viewed. The banjo in it's 5-string form,has become the banjo,& the 4 stringed 'Plectrum' banjo & 'Tenor' banjo are 'variations'. The Plectrum banjo is like the 5 string banjo less the 5th string & is tuned the same,but even that's changed. 'Proper' banjo tuning is G 5th / C / G / B / D. However,it became desirable to use an open G tuning for some reason,so the 4th string was tuned up to D. Whether it was the 'country folks' that came up with that i don't know,but it's standard Bluegrass tuning (we won't go into the other 100 or so banjo tunings). The Tenor banjo is a reall odd-ball. Short scale, & not even tuned as a banjo 'should be'. It's tuned in 5ths as per a mandolin,so it could be argued that the Tenor banjo is a 'mandolin banjo'. There's as much an argument for it being a 'mandolin banjo' as there is for it being a banjo (IMHO).
So - looking at the ''banjo mix-up'',why do we question 4 or 5 string mandolins ?. I suppose that it's because we view the mandolin as we know it as essentially an instrument with 4 courses of 2 strings = 8 strings. There's no reason not to have 4 or 5 strings,but personally,i like the 'full house'. For me,i like the twin sound of the paired strings - but other folk will like 'something else',as it should be,
Ivan

[wooq]

It's simple. A mandolin is what a mandolinist plays.

[Tobin]

I think the best definition is "a plucked instrument approximately violin-scale and tuned in fifths".

So if I tune my mandolin to fourths, is it no longer a mandolin?

[CelticDude]

Are we down to, " I can't define it, but I know one when I see one"?

[mrmando]

I was mulling over exactly the same question as the OP yesterday in response to the photo of the 5 string Elec.mandolin on the home page of the Cafe. To me,it's a similar thing to the names given to the 3 different banjo 'variants'.

Only 3? You're overlooking the mandolin banjo, the banjo ukulele, the cello banjo, the guitar banjo, the banjeaurine...

[lukmanohnz]

A stringed instrument having a case ideally sized for a sleeping cat and a price tag ideally sized for initiating an argument with one's spouse.

[DavidKOS]

What defines a mandolin ?

This:



basic parts of a mandolin (strap button not needed)

originally bowlbacked, also made with flat and carved backs and tops.

[Randi Gormley]

isn't the pick guard also optional?

[Ron McMillan]

It is an instrument that hundreds, sometimes thousands of devotees at a time abandon in a corner of the room while they spend hours on the Web talking about how they couldn't possibly live without it.

[mandroid]

The Violin Pitch set, in a fretted string instrument?

[bobrem]

Double stop tremolo.

[sblock]

OK: Think about a specific mandolin -- maybe, something you own. Or maybe a Gibson F5 Loar, or an Embergher classical bowlback.

If you changed the tuning from strict fifths, would it still be a mandolin?
(most folks would probably say "yes")

If you removed the pickguard (assuming it has one), would it still be a mandolin?
(most folks would probably say "yes")

If it had single courses, rather than double courses, would it still be a mandolin?
(most folks would probably say "yes")

If it had five courses, tuned CGDAE, rather than four courses tuned GDAE, would it still be a mandolin?
(most folks would probably say "yes")

If you electrified it, with a pickup, would it still be a mandolin?
(most folks would probably say "yes")

If you replaced the floating bridge with a fixed one, and got rid of the tailpiece, would it still be a mandolin?
(most folks would probably say "yes")

If you lengthened the scale from 13-7/8" to 14-7/8", but kept it tuned to GDAE, would it still be a mandolin?
(most folks would probably say "yes")

If you played it with bare fingers and not a pick, or with fingerpicks, would it still be a mandolin?
(most folks would probably say "yes")

If you removed the frets and picked it fretless, would it still be a mandolin?
(most folks would probably say "yes")

My point, here?! No single trait makes a mandolin a mandolin. It's a whole bunch of traits, and furthermore, you can probably change any single one, or even several, of these traits and yet still have something that most folks would consider to be a mandolin!

That said, at some point, the modified instrument begins to look more like something else in the mandolin family, or perhaps an instrument with another name altogether. If you change both the tuning AND the scale length, you can get a mandola, mandolinetto, mandocello, octave mandolin, and so on. So yes, scale length matters along with tuning, but these are not hard-and-fast rules. If you replace the wooden top with a stretched membrane, then arguably you have a banjolin (mandolin banjo). If you made it fretless and played it with a bow, maybe you have something that more closely resembles a violin! It doesn't take much to change a tenor guitar into an octave mandolin with 4 strings.

In truth, there are no strict "rules" that define an instrument. There are general groups of traits. Furthermore, all instruments tend to evolve, and the instrument of today may not resemble so closely one from a long time ago. Two of Antonio Stradivari's mandolins survive to this day, but they sure don't look anything like a Gibson or Embergher. Nor do they sound like one. When Orville Gibson, followed by Lloyd Loar, got rid of the bowlback and canted top, and instead went with a carved top and back, elevated the fretboard above the body, changed from a round soundhole to f-holes, floated the pickguard, introduced an adjustable-height bridge, lengthened the scale to 13-7/8", added a scroll and points, and a bunch more -- did they call the instrument something else? No! It was still called a "mandolin."

A mandolin is what a mandolin does. Stop trying to define it, and just enjoy it, I say. You might was well try to define "love."

P.S. Biologists have this same problem when trying to define a "species" over the course of evolution. A working definition that seems to make good sense over a comparatively short period of time fails over a longer one, because species continually evolve, and with it, their characteristic properties. So too, with musical instruments.

[Tom Wright]

I have run into a problem explaining what kind of instrument I play and what role it serves. When I say it is a mandolin, people expect either bluegrass or Italian sounds. I've considered calling it an alto guitar, as I use it much more as a guitar, in playing style and what chords, bass lines, and accompanying figures I employ.

10-string soprano guitar?

[Marty Jacobson]

A mandolin is a parasitic organism which modifies our brain chemistry to result in obsessive behavior. It draws its energy from metabolizing any disposable income brought in by the afflicted, and requires a geometrically increasing supply of cash as the affliction progresses.
There are approximately 5 million people suffering from this malady every day in America, and yet it is not considered a valid medical expense under any known health care plans or tax legislation.

[JH Murray]

Since the mandolin is continuing to evolve, so must the definition. There was no such thing as an acoustic guitar until Les Paul invented the electric guitar.

[mrmando]

There was no such thing as an acoustic guitar until Les Paul invented the electric guitar.

"Who invented the electric guitar?" is an even more contentious question than "What defines a mandolin?"...