Results 1 to 21 of 21

Thread: Wood Binding F5 Mandolin

  1. #1

    Default Wood Binding F5 Mandolin

    Hi Builders
    I am in the process of building another cherry back and side. I would like to use
    the cherry scraps to bind the top and back. Can it be done rather simple or go
    back to standard binding. Thanks for your input.
    C. F. Smartt Mandolins

  2. #2

    Default Re: Wood Binding F5 Mandolin

    My Eastman 915 has maple binding, so I think cherry would work OK

    Dave H
    Eastman 615 mandola
    2011 Weber Bitteroot A5
    2012 Weber Bitteroot F5
    Eastman MD 915V
    Gibson F9
    2016 Capek ' Bob ' standard scale tenor banjo
    Ibanez Artist 5 string
    2001 Paul Shippey oval hole

  3. #3
    Registered User G7MOF's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Lancashire/UK
    Posts
    1,411

    Default Re: Wood Binding F5 Mandolin

    It's all down to how you prep your wood binding as it needs to be very pliable to bend well.
    I never fail at anything, I just succeed at doing things that never work....


    Fylde Touchstone Walnut Mandolin.
    Gibson Alrite Model D.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Wood Binding F5 Mandolin

    You cut and scrape the binding strip to size - say 1/4" tall by 1/16" thick, and you bend it to a perfect - yes, PERFECT - fit with your bending iron. When you glue it, it should be under no stress at all. I would personally put a couple of coats of 1 pound cut dewaxed schellac on the binding and the routed rebate, and glue it on with ultra-thin CA glue. Tape it all around with two or three inch gaps between strips of tape, apply the CA glue between the strips, press in with a tool to seat for 5 seconds, and move on to the next space. Take the tape off and glue those bits last.

  5. #5
    Registered User fscotte's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Zanesville, Ohio
    Posts
    2,490

    Default Re: Wood Binding F5 Mandolin

    Wood binding is one of the more difficult parts of building a mandolin.

  6. #6
    Adrian Minarovic
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Banska Bystrica, Slovakia, Europe
    Posts
    3,462

    Default Re: Wood Binding F5 Mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by fscotte View Post
    Wood binding is one of the more difficult parts of building a mandolin.
    Too bad they didn't tell me when I was making my first F-5s.
    Not too much problem on A styles though.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	06.jpg 
Views:	319 
Size:	43.1 KB 
ID:	147414   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	04.jpg 
Views:	330 
Size:	52.5 KB 
ID:	147415   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	05.jpg 
Views:	316 
Size:	40.9 KB 
ID:	147416  

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	07.jpg 
Views:	321 
Size:	36.0 KB 
ID:	147417  
    Adrian

  7. #7
    Adrian Minarovic
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Banska Bystrica, Slovakia, Europe
    Posts
    3,462

    Default Re: Wood Binding F5 Mandolin

    To answer the question. Learn as much as you can about bending wood. You will NEED metal backstrap for bending the tightest curves and better yet if you can lock the backstrap on the ends of the bent piece so it takes all the tension of the bend. I managed to bend binding piece 2mm thick curly maple around screwdriver shaft - the piece used for the small headstock scroll.
    If I ever do it again I would use two layers of thinner veneer laminated together after bending and/or I would try one of the chemical veneer softeners to help with bending. Some makers just cheat and carve the tightest parts of solid wood unbent. This is the first problem but the real trouble comes with finishing. You cannot stain it like traditional F-5 on bare wood unless you completely mask-seal or whatever the binding so no stain gets into pores (and it WILL get there anyway no matter how much ypou try as it will find any tiny gap and color your binding where you don't want it...). You will need to have the binding channel sealed before gluing bindings as dyes can soak into your bindings through the wood.
    I decided to seal whole mandolin with few layers of shellac and airbrush toned shellac for color coats. Then scraped bindings. It gives different look from handrubbed burst but many builders do it this way (including Gibson).
    Adrian

  8. #8

    Default Re: Wood Binding F5 Mandolin

    Man, I remember when I first saw Adrian's first mandolin posted here. Had never heard of him. Long before he had drawn his plans. Lots of folks would post pictures of their first builds, but when I saw his it was like, how can this possibly be his first attempt?

  9. #9
    Registered User fscotte's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Zanesville, Ohio
    Posts
    2,490

    Default Re: Wood Binding F5 Mandolin

    Some guys are weirdly talented.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Wood Binding F5 Mandolin

    I am a first time mandolin builder but I'm putting wood (cocobolo) bindings on my instrument. I studied this forum and settled on a bending technique similar to one described by Mark Franzke for bending his ribs. He spritzes his wood with water, then wraps tightly in aluminum foil to seal in the moisture. The wrapped wood is then sandwiched between strips of aluminum flashing (the flashing strips conduct heat from the surface into the space between the form halves). With constant steam heat (delivered by a tea kettle or something like that) , it is slowly bent between male and female form pieces (for a body, a male part with the inside dimensions of the ribs and several female pieces cut so that the wood srip can be progressively bent section by section). Cutting form pieces from plywood is not difficult; figuring a strategy to do the progressive bend, clamping each section as the bend is achieved, is the key. The wood is heated section by section as the bend progresses, and the process is done very slowly to allow the wood to heat and relieve its tension. Instead of steam heat I use a thermostatted heat gun (Milwaukee) set to about 370F, evenly heating both the sandwiched wood and the forms in the area of the current bend. I may take 5 or 10 minutes of repeated heating/slight bending/heating, etc for each section. When the piece is completely bent and clamped, I allow the piece to cool for about 2-4 hours, then disassemble, remove the foil, and clamp the bare wet wood in the form to dry overnight. The beauty of this technique is if the form is accurate, the shape is exact, and there's no scorching. I've use the technique for both ribs and binding without any cracks. Even used it for wood binding of the tight radius of the curves at the bottom of the fretboard.

    My instrument is an A style, however, and I'm sure the scroll of an F style is more of a challenge.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Wood Binding F5 Mandolin

    I know I'll never build a mandolin, but boy do still I find these threads fascinating. Thanks, guys.

  12. The following members say thank you to Ron McMillan for this post:

    G7MOF 

  13. #12
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Marshall, Michigan
    Posts
    33

    Default Re: Wood Binding F5 Mandolin

    It should not be difficult, I have done rosewood binding a few times. just pre bend it and glue it in just like any other binding.

  14. #13
    Adrian Minarovic
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Banska Bystrica, Slovakia, Europe
    Posts
    3,462

    Default Re: Wood Binding F5 Mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by Jr Brown View Post
    It should not be difficult, I have done rosewood binding a few times. just pre bend it and glue it in just like any other binding.
    Pre bending the wood binding for F-5 IS difficult. On the tightest bends you are bending wood not TO but WELL PAST its bending limits. You are actuaslly crushing the wood on the inside of the bend and you don't want to break the outside and you want the inside crush as evenly and smoothly as possible.
    If you want to bend wood to its limits you need metal strap fixed to both ends (search bending wood for furniture on YT to see it in action) to prevent cracking and you need inside form to bend around for smooth curve. That's what I did just in tiny scale. For the small headstock scroll I managed to bend three out of five without breaking and still cannot believe it went so well.

    I spent three years reading, researching and learning adn experimenting various woodworking techniques before I started the first build. I also spend most of the evenings at the drawing board drawing my own set of drawings - using bad distorted pics from xeroxed Sam Bush book and pics from magazines as reference - there was no chance getting ANY drawings in our country and internet was not common here as well. I remember I traced mandolin scrolls from TV screen from paused VHS tape of Bill Monroe show. I didn't know anything about Loar, not even that Gibson invented the design but somehow I found out that some of the mandolins looked just better and wanted to find out why. I drew my own drawings with what looked best to my eyes only later to find oout there are Loars and realized they are themandolins that look best - those guys designing them knew how to interlace the florentine designs without losing balance of whole.
    Adrian

  15. #14

    Default Re: Wood Binding F5 Mandolin

    Steve Gilchrist is another guy who lived far from any Loars or mandolins in general but was touched by the music and the instrument. I remember him saying how he tried to figure out the scale length based on Monroe's hand on the fretboard.
    Worked out for him too.

  16. The following members say thank you to Jim Hilburn for this post:

    G7MOF 

  17. #15
    Adrian Minarovic
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Banska Bystrica, Slovakia, Europe
    Posts
    3,462

    Default Re: Wood Binding F5 Mandolin

    Yes, I know about Gilchrist and I laughed how similar his way was to my (except the well deserved fame of his, LOL). Living far removed from the source can train you an many ways.
    Adrian

  18. #16

    Default Re: Wood Binding F5 Mandolin

    Thanks Builders
    After reading your post I have taken the easy way out using regular binding, I did thin a piece of cherry to binding size soaked
    in water with heat but could not make the small bend. Thanks again.

  19. #17
    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Manchester - Lancashire - NW England
    Posts
    14,187

    Default Re: Wood Binding F5 Mandolin

    Jiri Lebeda is (was) another builder who had to scale up photos / sketches etc. ,to get the dimensions for his first mandolin build. He also did one of the most beautiful binding jobs on an "F" style mandolin using Maple.The grain of the Maple stood out in a wonderfully contrasting way to the top/back/side woods. You can see it especially well in this headstock shot,
    Ivan
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Lebeda_head.jpg 
Views:	318 
Size:	71.9 KB 
ID:	147483
    Weber F-5 'Fern'.
    Lebeda F-5 "Special".
    Stelling Bellflower BANJO
    Tokai - 'Tele-alike'.
    Ellis DeLuxe "A" style.

  20. #18
    Adrian Minarovic
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Banska Bystrica, Slovakia, Europe
    Posts
    3,462

    Default Re: Wood Binding F5 Mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan Kelsall View Post
    Jiri Lebeda is (was) another builder who had to scale up photos / sketches etc. ,to get the dimensions for his first mandolin build. He also did one of the most beautiful binding jobs on an "F" style mandolin using Maple.The grain of the Maple stood out in a wonderfully contrasting way to the top/back/side woods. You can see it especially well in this headstock shot,
    Ivan
    I believe the smallest curve on that headstock is not bent but carved out of larger piece. In't it that way, Ivan? Bending curly maple that thick to such curve is completely impossible.
    Adrian

  21. #19
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Suffolk, Va.
    Posts
    10

    Default Re: Wood Binding F5 Mandolin

    Here's a YouTube video that's pretty interesting and shows promise to resolving the tight bend issue.

    https://youtu.be/9Z0SsAyHKzc

  22. #20
    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Manchester - Lancashire - NW England
    Posts
    14,187

    Default Re: Wood Binding F5 Mandolin

    Adrian - It may very well be carved in that tiny area,but the rest of it isn't. The Maple binding still looks superb & it's a clever piece of 'carving',
    Ivan
    Weber F-5 'Fern'.
    Lebeda F-5 "Special".
    Stelling Bellflower BANJO
    Tokai - 'Tele-alike'.
    Ellis DeLuxe "A" style.

  23. #21

    Default Re: Wood Binding F5 Mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by Gasawdust View Post
    Here's a YouTube video that's pretty interesting and shows promise to resolving the tight bend issue.

    https://youtu.be/9Z0SsAyHKzc
    It is an interesting video indeed, BUT ... no way should any amateur start messing around with anhydrous ammonia ... the risks are enormous , and just not worth it (and I am by no means an extreme H&S adherent, quite the opposite in fact.)

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •