A style vs F style performance

[tmason0921]

Hello everyone! I am new to mandolin café and to the mandolin in general. I recently purchased my first mandolin, a cheap Savannah A style. It has been great to learn on so far.
I have played guitar for years now, and have always wanted to play mandolin.
Anyway, I will get to the point of my thread.

As far as appearance goes, I like the look of the F style body much more than the A style. My question to everyone is this:

Does the body style make a significant difference in the performance of the instrument? And if so, what is your personal preference?

If the sound quality and playability are similar, I would much prefer to own an F style.

Thanks ahead of time for your responses!

Trevor

[Luna Pick]

Trevor, welcome to the fabulous Mandolin Cafe community. The topic of your question happens to be one of the most discussed topics, probably over the history of the Cafe. You'll hear many variations of the theme, and nuanced opinions, but I think it's the general consensus (among a billion posts) is that performance and sound are effectively the same, the quality of the build otherwise equal, and that it comes down to aesthetic taste, and for many folks, price. Happy hunting.

[Pittsburgh Bill]

As stated this is a common but anticipated question from new players.
The costs associated with building an F style is significantly more than building an A Style due primarily to the additional time an F style takes to build. So if you are looking for tone and quality, put your money into an A style (unless of course money is of no concern). Simply put, "More bang for the Buck".
Personally, and many may disagree, I feel the purchase of an F style is for other people's eyes as you quickly adjust to a quality A style.
Not to say that I would not like to have a excellent condition 90 year old Gibson F4 mandola, were money was of no concern.

[Shelagh Moore]

Does the body style make a significant difference in the performance of the instrument? And if so, what is your personal preference?

No significant effect on sound quality. Personally I prefer the aesthetics of the A style but there are very many that prefer the F and are prepared to pay the additional cost.

[Luna Pick]

Oh yeah, forgot to mention my personal preference: A style, A5 more specifically. Functional elegance.

[mandroid]

Builder skill and care has more influence on the sound, than whether they added
a few extra Blocks of wood around the soundbox perimeter.

[Ron McMillan]

I think it is worth pointing out that an F-style is basically an A-style body with some solid (not hollow) additions - the scroll and the two points. So the A and the F have virtually identical internal dimensions and volume (volume as in cubic centimetres - not as in loudness). The extra cost for the F is for building the decorative add-ons (that I think are really beautiful), and has zero effect upon sound, tone or loudness.

[foldedpath]

Just agreeing here with the others that it makes no difference in tone. One could make a small argument in favor of the lower point as an aid in positioning the mandolin when playing seated. Mike Marshall mentions that in his short YouTube clip on mandolin basics. But that's a minor... er, point in favor of the flashier design.

Personally, I love the F-style shape. After years of playing fairly boring acoustic guitar shapes, I don't mind a little visual flash on my instruments. Besides, if fiddlers don't mind paying a little extra for that fancy scroll on the end of their peghead, then I figure it's not too outrageous on our little "fretted fiddles."

[darrylicshon]

I agree that it really doesn't matter in the shape it's in the build you can have 3 identical mandolins and they may sound different. But i prefer the F style best next i like the two pointers then the A style and i own all three shapes and enjoy playing all.

[tmason0921]

Thank you for your response. By the responses I have read, it looks like I will be able to choose aesthetically as long as I'm choosing a well crafted piece!

[Tom Sanderson]

The extra cost for the F is for building the decorative add-ons (that I think are really beautiful), and has zero effect upon sound, tone or loudness.

Having owned several high end A models and several high end F models, I have to disagree with you. In my opinion there is a difference that is hard to explain. I think it is caused by the added mass of the points and scroll. . I recently acquired a tone guard, and it also changes the tone on both my F model and my 2 A models. Again, I believe it is due to the added mass of the tone guard.

[dwc]

I think most people (myself included) will say that body shape (A vs F) will have little or no effect on tone. Sound hole shape (oval vs F) will have a noticeable effect on tone.

As has been stated, You get "more bang for your buck" with an A style mandolin. Therefore you have to decide what is most important to you, tone and build quality (in which case you get the best A style you can afford) or aesthetics (in which case you get the best F style you can afford).

Irrespective of what people post, aesthetics are a prime motivating factor in many mandolin purchases. There is a reason that sub $1k F styles sell well, even though everyone says that you can get a "better" A style for the same money. Looks matter. If you don't like your instrument, you won't play it, so buy what you like.

I will say though that many beginners overemphasize aesthetics at the expense of tone, build quality and especially playability. If I were buying my first mandolin, knowing what I know now, playability and set up would be the most important criteria in my purchase.

[T.D.Nydn]

I have both, my F is slightly better, but it's a slightly better instrument,but I love the F model.i appreciate it's complexity every time I pick it up(like 5 times a day). That point can help in your lap, but there's also something awesome about that scroll,,the way a strap hangs on it, the way you can rest your arm on it or grab it, and I just really like seeing it when I play,,

[tmason0921]

..

[tmason0921]

I think most people (myself included) will say that body shape (A vs F) will have little or no effect on tone. Sound hole shape (oval vs F) will have a noticeable effect on tone.

As has been stated, You get "more bang for your buck" with an A style mandolin. Therefore you have to decide what is most important to you, tone and build quality (in which case you get the best A style you can afford) or aesthetics (in which case you get the best F style you can afford).

Irrespective of what people post, aesthetics are a prime motivating factor in many mandolin purchases. There is a reason that sub $1k F styles sell well, even though everyone says that you can get a "better" A style for the same money. Looks matter. If you don't like your instrument, you won't play it, so buy what you like.

I will say though that many beginners overemphasize aesthetics at the expense of tone, build quality and especially playability. If I were buying my first mandolin, knowing what I know now, playability and set up would be the most important criteria in my purchase.

Thank you for your response. Fortunately for me, I have been playing guitar, piano, and bass for 9+ years, so I hopefully will not fall into the trap of just buying the prettiest instrument within my budget as I have seen so many do since I do have an understanding of quality and tone versus aesthetics.

[ccravens]

I hopefully will not fall into the trap of just buying the prettiest instrument within my budget....since I do have an understanding of quality and tone versus aesthetics.

If that is the case, and I think you are correct and astute in your observation, then the general consensus for getting the best in tone and quality for your money is:

*buy used (the mando will already be broken in and will be MUCH cheaper)
*buy an A-style (more tone for the money)
*buy from someone (like a number of cafe sponsors) who will provide a quality set-up as part of the price

If you prefer the F-style and can afford it, then go for it!

Please let everyone here know what you decide. Good luck!

[Mandoplumb]

I have to agree with DWC, most people starting the mandolin, even if coming from a guitar or musical background, will think they have to have an F style to be a real mandolin player ( double the pressure if you are going to play bluegrass). They will get a just so so F and start their mandolin journey, I did and would like to have back the dollars I spent on so so F style mandolins. After playing enough to really understand what a good mandolin is (a lot different than a good guitar) they will either save their money and buy a great F or, like me they will rather have several great A's and to h### with the scroll. You really won't know until you've played a while which group you fit in. In the mean time HAVE FUN which ever style you pick.

[red7flag]

I will go against the grain, well a little bit. I do think there is a very small difference in the tonal quality of similarly speced As and Fs. For lack of a better word, complexity, seems to fit the bill. That being said, is the difference worth the difference in price, no. Also, I said different not better. I have played some As that simply were stellar. I would not trade my Old Wave or my MTO. They both have a special place in my heart. I bet if I attached really nice tone woods to an A, I would bet that there would be a noticeable change in tone. Increased mass, in my mind, would have to change the tone, in some way. I have seen how increased mass effects banjo tone, why not mandolins?

[tmason0921]

I have to agree with DWC, most people starting the mandolin, even if coming from a guitar or musical background, will think they have to have an F style to be a real mandolin player ( double the pressure if you are going to play bluegrass). They will get a just so so F and start their mandolin journey, I did and would like to have back the dollars I spent on so so F style mandolins. After playing enough to really understand what a good mandolin is (a lot different than a good guitar) they will either save their money and buy a great F or, like me they will rather have several great A's and to h### with the scroll. You really won't know until you've played a while which group you fit in. In the mean time HAVE FUN which ever style you pick.

I guess that was the point of my thread. I don't "have" to have any particular style, which is why I was asking what people thought. And my point about coming from a musical background isn't to say that that I will know mandolins instantly (hence the question) but that I do understand that aesthetics rarely mean much to tonal quality in any instrument. However, given the situation where two instruments sound very very similar to each other, then I will choose the "prettier" of the two, but I will always choose tone and playability over looks.

[Mike Arakelian]

If you will choose tone and playability over looks, you have, IMO, your priorities right. Ideally, you will find something that attracts you visually, and speaks to you totally. The best approach is to pick up and personally play as many mandolins as you possibly can. When you've found the "right one", you'll know. Good luck and happy picking.

[9lbShellhamer]

One standard joke/question on the cafe is,

"What's the best F style for under $xxx?"

The Answer?

"A used A style!"

[Ivan Kelsall]

I own 2 "F" styles & 1 "A" style. I originally set out to have an 'F' & an 'A' style,but things got 'different' for one reason or another.
I used to prefer the "F" style,but having thought about 'why ?',it was only because i thought of the "F" style being the 'true' Bluegrass instrument = the style that Bill Monroe played. Not only that,but my first "A" style purchase was an oval hole "A-4" style,again because of the style / tone differences - F5 to A4. As i said,having thought about it,i'd decided that 'for me',i'd use either in a Bluegrass situation,especially as my Weber 'Beartooth' "A" style was incredibly powerful.
Performance wise -as the far more experienced players above have stated,there 'shouldn't be' very much difference at all sound wise. Maybe only the difference between any 2 mandolins 'A' or 'F' from the same builder,& the styling of the "A"'s is pretty cool IMO.
I'd reckon that more than a few folk on here would trade their "F"'s in for the "A" styles played by Tim O'Brien (Nugget), & Joe Walsh (Gilchrist),but they'd have to beat me to the head of the queue. "A" styles are terrific !!!,
Ivan

[Tom Sanderson]

Joe Walsh (Gilchrist)

Joe is now playing a Nugget A

[pops1]

My A style has stood up against every F I have ever played for complexity of tone. I don't think you have to sacrifice anything with an A style except a scroll. I also don't like the little point as it dictates how I set the mandolin on my lap, an A goes where I want it.

[Ivan Kelsall]

Hi Tom - Are you sure you're not meaning the Black top Gilchrist "A" style that Joe Walsh has been playing for a while now ?. That's the mandolin that i was referring to in my last post. It does look similar to a Tim O'Brien 'Nugget'' "A" style. Joe's "A" style Gil.is very highly regarded sound wise & it's hard to see that he'd give it up for ANY other mandolin,
Ivan