The search continues...

[KMaynard]

[JKA]

Excuse my ignorance but can somebody please explain to me the significance of the reference to 'Popcorn' that's so often seen on a thread?

I know it's probably a dumb question but hey...if you don't ask...

Cheers

[Franc Homier Lieu]

So, I'm asking you all...what do I do?

Why not go back and read this thread from the beginning? Lots of good advice there.

[Steve-o]

Excuse my ignorance but can somebody please explain to me the significance of the reference to 'Popcorn' that's so often seen on a thread?

I know it's probably a dumb question but hey...if you don't ask...

Cheers

JKA,

I take it as a reference to sitting back and watching a movie, or in this case, the drama of a reality TV show.

[Jstring]

Excuse my ignorance but can somebody please explain to me the significance of the reference to 'Popcorn' that's so often seen on a thread?

I know it's probably a dumb question but hey...if you don't ask...

Cheers

The meaning of popcorn? The person who posts a popcorn is essentially saying: "this thread is so contentious that it's about to blow up with fiery comments traded back and forth... I'm going to sit back, eat some popcorn, and see how long it takes this thread to get locked!"

For example, if someone asks "isn't a 'The Loar' just as good as a Lloyd Loar?".... Popcorn!!

Or, "wouldn't it be dumb to pay $35 for a pick?"... Popcorn!!!

In this thread, popcorn is very appropriate.... Although I think the OPs very nice wife should stop encouraging her husband's behavior at this point and tell him to go play his amazing mandolin....

[Steve-o]

My advice would be to keep both mandolins, but that might not be doable at this price point. There's nothing wrong with acquiring instruments, playing them, and then moving them along in catch-and-release fashion. The word of caution here is, how do you know (based on Dem's track record) that he won't change his mind again one week later assuming he can even acquire the Gil?

[JKA]

Thank you for taking the time to explain the Popcorn reference Steve and Jstring...I appreciate it.
Time to hunker down (with my popcorn) and see how this pans out.

[almeriastrings]

JKA,

I take it as a reference to sitting back and watching a movie, or in this case, the drama of a reality TV show.

Or a highly predictable train wreck in slow motion.

[Eric C.]

This thread was entertaining, now it's just absurd...

[Bob Clark]

There were quite a few postings urging Demetrius to slow down, do some exploration and give it some thought. These recommendations seem to have gone unheeded. I think the recent turn of events demonstrates that they were wise counsel indeed.

I really do wish Demetrius all the best in his musical endeavors. I remember being impressed by Tripping Lily way back when. Obviously he is a talented and accomplished musician and I really respect that.

But rather than requesting yet more advice, I think it may be beneficial to do what has already been suggested by some. Slow down. Do some exploration. Give it some thought.

There are great mandolins for sale today and there will be great mandolins for sale tomorrow. They are not going away. Relax and take it slowly. In time, the right one will come along.

I really am trying to purr more and hiss less. Thus far, I think I am succeeding. My comments above really are meant to help.

[Demetrius]

Hey guys! Really everything is fine, I'm just trying to adjust to the flatboard. The sound of the Wiens is warm, dark, and woody.The feel of it is to me, milky? Does that make sense? Which is good... It doesn't seem to have much sustain which is another thing I'm trying to adjust to. I'm sure in time I will, it's just gonna time getting to know it. It is the only flatboard, adi topped instrument I own so it's response and feel and sound are just foreign to me. I agree with those who say, stick with the Wiens and just play the heck out of it and make it my own, which I have been doing it. This would explain my disappearance since I got it. In fact I apologize cause there have been a few posters who have asked questions and I haven't been to repos naive to those, so again I do apologize. Same to the private messages, I will answer all of them. But going back to the Mando What I really do like about it is, it's a blank pallet. You know what I mean? It is fundimentaly a very solid, even and rather non complex core sound, which leads me to believe through lots of play it'll evolve to the way I play it. For those of you with Adi topped instruments Id love to hear your expirience with how it broke it. All I've really ever had was engelman tops, and the two mandos that were adi I moved before I could find out how they open. Thanks for reading, and I just appreciate you all so much. I really do...

Dem

[Stevo75]

This thread has done more to cure my MAS than anything else.

[William Smith]

This thread has done more to cure my MAS than anything else.

Never a cure my friend! NEVER

[Upis Land]

Dem,

I'd say you're in great position of opportunity. The Wiens has something to teach you. Rejoice in learning its lessons. Give it three or more months. Mastering its differences is bound to make you a better player. Then when the time is right another instrument may present itself for the next leg of the journey. Or else maybe the Wiens won't let you go. But you will know. All is well.

[Demetrius]

I like that idea, that is essentially what happened with my acoustic guitar that I had made..
11 years later its still my favorite guitar ever.. At first? Not so much, it took time to get aquatinted but once we connected, well that was the end of GAS.

[Perilous Deep]

Along the lines of what Upis suggested: take Joe Walsh's advice speaking about getting his Gilchrist Model 3 in this video. He made a commitment to himself to play it for year before making any decision about whether it was the one to keep for good. Prudent advice, especially if you're dealing with a new(-ish) mandolin that needs some time to get played in.

[Demetrius]

Although this is a 2013 Wiens build, it is basically a new instrument. I don't think this got much play if any.

Any words on Red spruce topped mandos? Any specific character traits that trickle out after different durations of time with solid 5 hrs of play daily?

[Jim Garber]

I'm just trying to adjust to the flatboard.

Contact Jamie and ask him if he will replace the fretboard with a radiused one made to your specs. If he is willing, have him make any other adjustments or fixes so it is closer to perfect. Play this mandolin to your heart's content and, as others suggested give it some time. You are an excellent player and you should be able to get what you want out of it from slightly adapting playing styles, trying different strings, picks, etc. See how it goes. I would think you could sell it for a decent price. It is a very desirable mandolin. Just my dos centavos.

[almeriastrings]

OK... well... I can tell you I had (still have, actually) a new Jim Triggs '23 F5 that has a red spruce top and is very, very dry. Definitely in the 'Loar' camp.... too dry, and a bit 'tight' for my tastes in some ways, but... a very good mandolin. I also have my Ellis F-5 Special... now that has a lot more "richness", sustain, overtones... and is without a doubt "THE" one for me - bar none. So, red spruce mandolins differ a lot. There are other things going on. All of them have different voices and they are all (at this kind of level) fine instruments.... bottom line: find something you like and play it!

[Demetrius]

Thanks Jim, good advice my friend...

Almeriastrings, if your Ellis a Red spruce top? yeh its the dryness Im trying to get used to... very very dry.
The Gilchrist had to almost everyone who played it too much sustain and was too bright but for me it just really worked.
It was the furthest thing from a hoss, and not a whole of of bottom end at all, but again to me it just worked.
As far as the Gilchrist there was more to the story when I returned it and I just don't want to post about it but believe
me when I say I expressed wanting it back after minor repairs were done. Not much more I could do...

[Demetrius]

I will say though, I think the dryness on the Wiens is due to the fact it just needs to be played. Im already hearing a spidget of complexity setting in... Not in a sustain way, but in a choral type of way.

[Relio]

When I was in the market I was torn for a bit between a Kimble F5 and an Ellis F5. The Ellis instruments I played did have more overtones and complexity. In person I was leaning a bit towards the complex sound, but on recordings I preferred the drier, fundamental tone. I ended up going with the Kimble and I could not be happier. The nice thing about your Wiens is that it should hold its value fairly well so if you decide to sell it in a couple years you shouldn't take a huge hit. A funny thing I've noticed is that many of my favorite things in life, I didn't like much when I was first introduced to it. I'd give your Wiens time....

[almeriastrings]

Almeriastrings, if your Ellis a Red spruce top? .

Yes.

[sgarrity]

Get a Tone-Rite and use it. I'm not sure if it was the placebo effect or if it really worked but when I used it on my former Gilchrist, it made a difference to me. I like the fuller, more modern tone that Engelmann tends to impart which is why I have a Heiden with a one piece Engelmann top and a one piece red maple back. But I also love the dry, clear, fundamental tone of a good Red Spruce topped bluegrass beast, which is why I have a Kimble F5 in those woods. So see, the obvious solution to your dilemma is a second mandolin!

But seriously, keep it for 6-12 months, play the heck out of it and then move it down the road if you haven't bonded. There are other Engelmann topped Gils out there. Charlie Derrington's old F5 Classical model was the one that got away for me.

[9lbShellhamer]

I have, or, have owned several Red Spruce topped mandolins and they couldn't be any more different...

The Northfield was a December of 2015 build. It was loud, and INCREDIBLY open and resonant. The treble was rich and sweet and wet. The treble notes had good clarity but the bass courses did not have great note clarity. It had sustain for days and had great playability. I sold it because I got an opportunity to buy a Gibson F5 Custom and I wasn't in love with the soft finish of the Northfield. If it wasn't for the finish issues I would wish I still owned the Northfield. It's sacrilege to say this, but it sounded as good as an Ellis, it had a GIANT midrange as well. The Northfield didn't cut like my Collings in a jam, but neither does my Gibson.. Nothing beats the Collings in a jam.

My Collings is the embodiment of what I want out of a Red Spruce topped mandolin. It has the loudest, punchiest, most beastly tone. It's really complex too. If there was ever a banjo DESTROYER, this is it. It's a 2002...so it's aged and been played a lot in the last few years. (I can only recall one SPECIFIC Heiden that might have equalled it's cutting power, and that one Heiden beat it in most other areas, like note clarity, etc. Also, there was one Gil that may cut as well and ONE Altman I played.) The Collings tone is very very bright and it is OPEN. It does not have as much sustain as the Northfield. It has more than my Gibson though. The Gibson has more note clarity than the Collings. The Gibson isn't a adi top though and that's what you want info on.

Once again, I think it really depends on each individual mandolin, not necessarily the reputation of the builder. My Collings sounds much more open and resonant and COMPLEX than other newer Collings' I've played...maybe it's the age, or maybe mine is just great.

My advice would be to play the Wiens for a while, and settle into it, but if you don't LOVE it, then sell it. The whole point of this journey is to find one that you LOVE more than you could ever imagine. If your budget is theoretically unlimited (which is is at the $20K price point),you have like 99.99% of the worlds available mandolins at your price-point. you should LOVE it's looks, LOVE it's tone, LOVE it's fretboard, LOVE 100% of it. Don't settle, don't sell yourself short.

You should have your soulmate at that price.

Hang on to the Wiens for a few months, but SELL it if you don't fall madly in love, and if you sell it: Take the money, take a trip to Nashville, play before you buy, you'll be shocked at what you find you like vs what you don't. Shopping online for a mandolins is a wild goose chase... Its VERY fun, but it's a goose chase.

BEST of luck as the journey continues.