'Starter' Oval Hole Recommendations

[Chris Daniels]

Hello Cafe! I'd love some insight from the experts here on my planned next purchase.

I already have a decked out The Loar LM500 that I plan on wearing through to get me to the level of playing ability I want to achieve before making the jump to a higher tier of f-hole mandolins. I just sold the last of the entry-level mandos I'd accumulated and would like to sate my re-ignited MAS with a quality A-style oval hole for those times when I want to practice something other than bluegrass.

Assuming a budget of approx $600, and looking at some currently for-sale mandolins here at the cafe, what are your thoughts and recommendations based on the following?:

Kalamazoo KM-11
The Flatiron 1N Pancake
Kentucky 270/272, etc.
Eastman MD304/604, etc.
Morris Oval Hole
Other?

I would eventually like to end up with a vintage Gibson or Martin, but since most of the ones I've seen below $1500 or so are pretty beat up I'd like something decent I can play for a few years while saving up and then be able to trade/sell pretty easily without taking too much of a hit.

Thanks for your time. Cheers!

C.

[Folkmusician.com]

The Kentucky 270 series and Eastman MD304 are both excellent mandolins for the money.

I have worked on a couple of the Flatirons, and they are also great, but a different beast, so narrowing it down to flat or arch top would be a good starting point.

While a nice vintage Gibson would be great, these latest pac-rim mandolins are getting close, and actually better than many of the vintage mandolins (not all of course).

Almost without exception, you will take the same percentage hit when reselling a mandolin bought new (regardless of brand). Virtually none hold their value in the short term. If you hold onto it 10+ years, you may fair pretty well. The retail prices have been climbing faster than inflation on most of these. I really wouldn't worry too much about resale value though.

If you buy used, there is no reason you would not get your money back when it came time to sell.

[Capt. E]

The Kentucky or the Eastman would be best in my opinion, though I don't have any experience with a Morris. The Flatiron is really an different sort of animal. It is a very nice instrument well thought of and for many people the only one they need, but if you eventually want to end up with a vintage Gibson or Martin, I would still start with the Kentucky. Somehow I have always preferred them to Eastman ovals played side by side.
Also, vintage Gibsons and vintage Martins are rather different. Each lend themselves best to different types of music and playing styles. Gibsons are louder for one, though Martins seem to do better with classical music. I have a 1920 Gibson A2 that I will NEVER sell. It cost me $1300 about two years ago.

[fatt-dad]

I love my Flatiron 1N
I love my Gibson A3
I've sold all my Kentucky, Ibanez, Alvarez, mandolins.
I kept my 1N over my KM-11

I think all the music that needs to be played on a mandolin can come from an f-hole archtop. I'd never claim when I tire of bluegrass I'd want to play my oval hole. Nah. . . I play Celtic, old-time and classical on them all!

f-d

[pheffernan]

Assuming a budget of approx $600, and looking at some currently for-sale mandolins here at the cafe, what are your thoughts and recommendations based on the following?

For me, the decision would be easy: the Flatiron. While the Kentucky and Eastman would only be viewed as starter instruments, destined to be jettisoned for something more desirable, the 1N could be a lifetime flattop, waiting to be joined, not replaced, by the right carved oval when sufficient funds become available.

[Capt. E]

The Flatiron is a special case and would be a good alternative to your current instruments. Yeah, after thinking a while, that may be where you should go. The Kentucky won't give you much that is different. Get the Flatiron now and save for a good vintage Gibson oval (A2 or better). Good luck getting a Flatiron for only $600. They can go for as much as, or more than, a regular teens Gibson A.

[Dave Sheets]

If you can find a good flatiron 1N, the value is not likely to go down, you should be able to sell it for what you paid for it. They are their own animal, so try one to see if you like it. You may never want to get rid of it. I have been kicking myself for passing on one in a Montana pawnshop 20 years ago for $200 in good condition. Dang, what was I thinkin'...

[Chris Daniels]

F-dad,

I almost wrote a disclaimer that I knew an f-hole could be used for any style and that's what I'm currently doing with my LM500 when not playing bluegrass: A little celtic, some swing, classical duets with my flute-playing daughter, etc.

I guess what I'm looking for is a different sound altogether, something that has a completely different voicing. I can only think of my 'forever' electric guitars: one's a semi-hollow body best suited for super clean tones, the other a rock monster that can stand up to the heaviest overdrive. Not that I play much guitar anymore anyway but I've never had a reason to look for anything else to replace or supplement either.

From both Robert's and the Captain's responses calling the Flatiron a different beast/animal than the others, I'm guessing that it may be exactly what I'm looking for. What specifically do you love about yours?

C.

[fatt-dad]

I love the stories I have with my mandolins much more than the tonal characteristics. Sure, they all sound a bit different. My 1N happened into my life during a time when I was in a buying frenzy. I was so totally surprised by the quantity of sound on light-gauge strings (GHS A250 are the proper gauges). I am also amazed at the durability of these mandolins! I've travelled all over the place with my 1N (Panama, the beach, Costa Rica, etc.). So, I just like having it around and it makes me happy when I play it. Same goes with my A3, my Cohen and my Muth.



f-d

[pheffernan]

What specifically do you love about yours?

I know that this question was directed at f-d, but I'd like to chime in as I owned one for several years. What I loved about my 1984 1N was the voice. It didn't have quite the depth or complexity of my snakehead, but it was loud and strong on the fundamental. Aesthetically, it was a humble instrument without figure or bling, but it was well made of solid woods by skilled craftsmen here in the U.S.A. It was very high on TPR (tone-price ratio).

What I didn't love about mine was the playability. Mine lacked an adjustable truss rod or bridge, and the combination of a full U-shaped neck, flat board, and tiny frets was less than ideal for my left hand. So I sold it and commissioned Andy Poe to build me one of his Scout flattops, hopefully capturing the vintage look and sound of a pancake with the modern playability features to which I've become accustomed. A couple of his prototypes are currently available in the classifieds:

http://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/100547#100547

http://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/100651#100651

[jetsedgwick]

I have the Gretsch F style oval hole and I'm totally happy with it.

[JeffD]

If I misunderstand your post I heartily apologize.

I respectfully deny the whole premise of buying something to get one to the next level of proficiency at which point one moves on with a "better" instrument. Except perhaps in the case of starter instruments for beginners without demonstrated commitment.

In your F-hole selection, you now have an instrument of sufficient quality that you will never outgrow it, or find it technically limiting. Your tastes may change, or you may seek some subtleties of tone or playability only available at a high price, but that instrument you have will never be irrelevant. It will never be an instrument upon which you cannot further your abilities; it will never, ever, be the limiting factor in your progress.

So starting now with oval holes, is your budget due to how much you can spend, or how much you can justify on an instrument you intend to "jettison" as soon as you are "better" than it? I would never buy an instrument I intend, at the outset, to jettison and replace. I would always get the best and closest to what I want, given the resources available. I would never get almost what I will want, on the grounds that I am not ready for it.

Get what you really really want!

Regarding the diversity factor - if you are looking for a sound different from bluegrass, I would favor the pancake, or any other non-arch top. I don't remember if the Morris is a flat top or not. I think the arch top sound is so iconic to bluegrass, that even an oval hole is not going to depart a whole lot from being bluegrassy. Lots of really cool sounding flatties out there, at a whole range of prices. And generally speaking flat tops are often a better value for the money than an arch top.

[F-2 Dave]

Gibson made a lot of oval hole mandolins. There are still lots out there. I was able to pick up my 1909 A-4 for around 800 dollars four years ago. If you aren't in a hurry, and shop diligently, I'm sure an old Gibson oval will show up not far from your price range.

[Chris Daniels]

Jeff,

There is some misunderstanding of my intent, but that's only because I left out a lot of info in trying to be brief with my original post.

I agree wholeheartedly with your point about not needing to achieve a certain level of proficiency before 'deserving' a better instrument. Except for my original long-gone Kay starter acoustic, my 3 six-strings (two electric, one acoustic) are the only regular guitars I've ever owned (I do own a 12 string). I've had them for many years, they are pro-level axes capable of things far above any ability I'll ever have, and I love them and will never replace them. But, I also acknowledge I got very lucky in getting each one (right time/place, etc) and so have never felt like I've compromised on any of them.

I didn't have quite the same scenario with mandolin. You nailed it with the commitment comment, as I went through a few starters before really getting serious about playing (far more serious than I ever was with guitar) but I bought the LM500 as soon as I realized I needed a 'real' instrument. It is a very nice mandolin that hit all of my requirements at the time (all carved, f-style, scooped florida, good price, etc), and I could certainly play it for eternity without topping out, but I'm not completely happy with the tone. There's nothing 'wrong' with it per se, but it just doesn't have that magic quality I lucked into with my guitars. So, some day I'm going to find something I like better, but that day is not today and I'm in no hurry. My daughter is heavily involved in band and her musical expenses (which are considerable) take priority.

However, I still have a small budget for myself, especially since I just did really well selling the one starter I still had sitting around (i.e. getting twice what I paid for it at a pawn shop!). Paired with my other mandolin money, that is what sets my current $600 target. So to get back to the reason for my original post, I was mainly looking for the best use for that amount of money that would get me something different from what I already have. I knew an oval hole was the easiest way to accomplish this, but other than that I really had no specific requirements and was looking for advice and suggestions. There's such a wealth of experience here I figured I'd probably get more than enough info to help make a decision.

Hope that clarifies things and thanks so much for your thoughts. Looks like everyone is leaning pretty heavily towards the Flatiron. I've made an offer on the one in the classified and am just waiting to hear back.

C.

[darrylicshon]

I have 4 oval hole mandolins all were way under your price. 3 are from the 70's or 80's an A style and 2 two pointers and last month i got a really great deal on a Gretsch G9320 which is an F style oval hole , i bought it on line so i wasn't sure how it would sound luckily it sounds great all 4 of mine sound different, If you get a chance try to play some oval hole mandolins even if they are out of your price range, that's really the best way to find that sound you're talking about

[Mike Arakelian]

LowNSlow...there's a nice looking Flatiron 1N in the classifieds right now for $550...NFI. I don't have a flat top, but I do have a nice Flatiron Performer A, and heartily recommend the brand...they are well made and sound and play great. Good luck.

[Chris Daniels]

Mike,

That's who I have an offer in to as I type. Maybe I'll be able to post some good news here soon!

Thanks,

C.

[Chris Daniels]

All,

I wanted to send a big thanks to everyone for their comments and advice. Looks like some mando luck shined on me and I've got a 1995 Flatiron N1 headed my way. It was posted to the classifieds minutes before my original post and I added it to my list of contenders on impulse. No 'starter' here! It looks like I may have found the last flat top oval hole I'll ever need!

Play 'em loud!

C.

[Capt. E]

Great news! Enjoy it for many many years.

[Mike Arakelian]

Congratulations LowNSlow...I think you've got a winner. Be sure to check out the Flatiron Lovers social group and be sure to post something after you receive your "flattie". Happy picking.

Mike