Mandolin Conservatives

[Br1ck]

When it comes to instruments, we musicians are quite the conservative lot. I thought guitar players were set in their ways, what with only a handful of electric guitar styles. The acoustic guitar world is maybe slightly more adventurous in that more types of wood are being used all the time.

It seems to me that the mandolin world is even narrower in its acceptance of shape and material. Was there any time where mandolin builders experimented with different woods and came to the conclusion there was no topping maple/spruce for mandolins? When the odd wood combo shows up here, owners seem to like them, but what percentage vary from the norm?

I am ignorant of mandolin history, and just as conservative in what I will buy, though I do have a redwood top Silverangel on the way.

[Spruce]

Was there any time where mandolin builders experimented with different woods and came to the conclusion there was no topping maple/spruce for mandolins? When the odd wood combo shows up here, owners seem to like them, but what percentage vary from the norm?

Gibson's use of birch has always mystified me...
Thousands and thousands of wonderful instruments were made from the stuff during the mandolin heyday, but you rarely see it employed today...
Tried-and-true then, ignored today...

Go figure...

[allenhopkins]

Some of the materials selection is clearly derived from violin construction; Mr. Gibson considered the violin "the king of instruments," reportedly, so built his mandolins similarly, and that has become the standard: spruce top, maple body, mahogany neck.

Bowl-back builders used rosewood, maple and mahogany for the bowl staves. Quite a few mandolins were made -- and some are still made -- with mahogany bodies; a large plurality of Martin flat-backs were made that way. I had a koa-bodied instrument built for me, and you see the occasional walnut, cherry, even oak body.

And, of course, you have synthetics, from Ovation's Fiberglas (excuse me, "Lyrachord") bodies, to the current carbon fiber instruments.

Acoustic instrument construction is often conservative; I don't agree that electric guitars have "only a handful of styles," unless one has very large hands! You've had solid-body electrics made of a wide range of materials, from aluminum to Lucite to concrete, and surely in many various shapes. But remember, acoustic stringed instrument construction is based on a 700-year tradition, in which luthiers have experimented with different woods and reached somewhat of a consensus on "what works" -- at least for the sounds we're used to hearing.

[MikeEdgerton]

Gibson's use of birch has always mystified me...
Thousands and thousands of wonderful instruments were made from the stuff during the mandolin heyday, but you rarely see it employed today...
Tried-and-true then, ignored today...

Go figure...

Didn't they specify maple in the catalog and then ship birch? That might have been on certain instruments.

[Bill Kammerzell]

I had a Bacon Amateur mandolin (1924) that had Birch back and sides.

[foldedpath]

We're not all conservative about wood choice. My one-and-only mandolin is a redwood/maple Lebeda. A friend has a cedar/cocobolo Elkhorn with a nice warm tone. Neither of us play Bluegrass, we're more in the OldTime/Irish trad zone, but I think either instrument could make a reasonable stab at Bluegrass in the right hands.

If you only play Bluegrass and hang out with other Bluegrass players, the mandolin world might seem a bit more conservative about tonewoods than is actually the case. Same thing with guitars, actually. And then there's the ultimate conservative instrument: the fiddle. Mandolins are wildly variable by comparison!

[JeffD]

If you only play Bluegrass and hang out with other Bluegrass players, the mandolin world might seem a bit more conservative about tonewoods than is actually the case. Same thing with guitars, actually. And then there's the ultimate conservative instrument: the fiddle. Mandolins are wildly variable by comparison!

Spot on.

[JeffD]

It seems to me that the mandolin world is even narrower in its acceptance of shape and material. Was there any time where mandolin builders experimented with different woods and came to the conclusion there was no topping maple/spruce for mandolins?

I am ignorant of mandolin history, and just as conservative in what I will buy, though I do have a redwood top Silverangel on the way.

For those interested, I cannot recommend strongly enough, Graham McDonald's book "The Mandolin: A History". Even a casual perusal will show striking diversity over time and in different musical genres and musical tastes.

Even for those versed in the history of the mandolin, the book is a great read and a cool reference to have.

We are all part of a really grand tradition, that goes way way back almost uncountable eons. Well, OK. Only 42 centuries. There is a certain thrill in that. We may play bluegrass, only around since Bill, or we may play blues, or classical, but all of us are connected to this ancient ancient tradition, older than the music which we play. It more than shiver inducing to think about it. Every time we pick up a mandolin we incrementally move the tradition a little forward.

Oh well, H.P. Lovecraft, or Indiana Jones, take your pick, it is a tradition "hoary with age".

"Out of whose womb came the ice? and the hoary frost of heaven, who hath gendered it?"

"Shrouded in the fogs of hoary eons past, where rugose gods and creatures long thought moldering in antediluvian tombs stumble blindly... "

[mandroid]

See some alternatives Here http://www.mandolincafe.com/archives...rs/selmer.html

Not listed; The Late David Hodson's D'Jangolin ..
mine Uses the Selmer like laminate of Indian Rosewood outside
and Mahogany Inside ... with a Spruce top. of course..

[soliver]

I noticed a Poe Scout in the classifieds recently with Birch back and sides.

Can any of the builders speak to the quality of certain woods that makes them more effective tone woods? I have toyed with the idea of attempting a build and am curious about what makes a good tone wood. For instance if I went to the lumberyard in search of a nice piece of birch to use, what are the qualities I would be looking for.

This is a very interesting thread!

[William Smith]

Didn't they specify maple in the catalog and then ship birch? That might have been on certain instruments.

Yes they did Mike, so in the early 20's maybe Loar said why don't we do what we say hence than all models were made from maple.

[Chief]

So I play mainly electric and resonator mandolins made out of all kinds of cool stuff. Hardly conservative.

[Br1ck]

Re: electric guitars, if you take the telecaster, stratocaster, LesPaul, and ES 335 styles, I'd venture you would have 80% of all electrics sold. Really no wildly popular new design in decades.

Would it be a fair guess to say 95% of all mandolins are of maple/ spruce?

Yes, violin would be the most rigid of instruments.

[MikeEdgerton]

Would it be a fair guess to say 95% of all mandolins are of maple/ spruce?

I think you could go with 99% and be right.

[Bren]

I have a mahogany mandolin.
(With spruce top)


Does that make me one of the 1%?

[JeffD]

I have a mahogany mandolin, all mahogany except for the finger board. I guess I am a 1%er too.

[Spruce]

Would it be a fair guess to say 95% of all mandolins are of maple/ spruce?

Well, how many Gibson birch mandolins are out there?
A hellova lot more than Gibson maple mandolins...
Tens of thousands??
That would knock your percentage down considerably, no?

[Dave Hanson]

My Paul Shippey has rosewood back and sides and a sitka top, great sounding instrument.

Dave H

[Dave Greenspoon]

My grandmother's mandolin is dated to nlt 1925. It has an all-mahogony body with maple neck/headstock.

And let's not forget the most ubiquitous material for mass produced instruments: nato.

[JeffD]

I don't think bowlbacks have maple backs, do they? I don't think the staves are maple, or rarely anyway.

[fatt-dad]

I have three archtop mandolins - two f-hole and one oval hole. The two former are redwood/walnut and red-spruce/maple. The latter is red-spruce (three piece) and birch. My pancake is spruce (Sitka?) and maple.

f-d

[Bob A]

Lots of maple-backed bowls. I have a Greek one with a walnut bowl.

[Bob A]

It seems to me that the mandolin world is even narrower in its acceptance of shape and material. Was there any time where mandolin builders experimented with different woods and came to the conclusion there was no topping maple/spruce for mandolins? When the odd wood combo shows up here, owners seem to like them, but what percentage vary from the norm?
.

There are few instruments whose variety of shapes is greater than the mandolin. I've seen what must amount to hundreds of different mandolins on this site over the years. It's one of the inherent charms of the instrument, I think.

Regarding woods, plenty of variations there as well. There's an Australian, Peter Coombe, who has been using native woods to great effect, for example. Walnut, mahogany, koa, birch, maple, oak, rosewood, bubinga, on and on it goes. Mandolin luthiers seem to be willing to experiment regarding materials as well as shapes.

You want conservative, look to the violin world, where the basic shape and material list has been set in stone for centuries. (OK, some well-respected old Italians used fruitwoods for some instrument backs, but the Big Guns stuck pretty closely, for the most part, to the best spruce and maple.)

[Roger Moss]

I guess you can call me conservative. I consider F-style too far out.

[fscotte]

Different doesnt necessarily make it better. What we are really talking about here is the back sides and neck. The top has always been a variety of spruce or redwood or cedar because they are very light and stiff, which makes it a perfect candidate for the top.

You can be liberal with the back and sides for some reason that i'm not fully able to comprehend. If the top needs to be as light and stiff as possible, why shouldnt the back? Why are we using heavier maple or walnut? Well for certain reasons they need to have some toughness so to speak. The woods for the back need to be hard to prevent damage from use and abuse. Thus i guess we use the harder woods.

Since maple has the traits needed for a back, stiffness, relatively high stiffness to mass, durability, and beauty, why use anything else?