string gauges

[A 4]

Hi. I'm new to tenor guitars, having picked up a no-name a few months back. I just tried the D'Addario J66 tenor guitar strings. Those seem designed for CGDA tuning, and I'm using GDAE tuning. They turn out to be really buzzy when played, but I liked that they were really easy to play, although that made me try and bend them all the time. I also had to angle my floating bridge more for intonation. Does that sound like symptoms of strings that are too narrow? I'm not sure where the buzzing was happening, by the way. More on chords, rather than single not picking. The J66 set is .032 (G), .022(D), .014(A), and .010(E)

The previous string set was made of individual strings, probably from advice from here. They were .046 (G), .030(D), .020(A), and .013(E). Those were fine, but for playability, I might like to go lighter, after my experiment with the J66 strings. Does someone have advice on what gauges I should maybe try? Should I just shoot for somewhere between the two sets and experiment?

Thanks in advance, and I know I will have a couple questions on chording choices coming up.

[fox]

One of my favourite subjects
Firstly you do not mention the scale length of your guitar or the model?
I don't believe there is going to be one set of strings that suits everyone however I would initially start off using a set where every string is as close to 20lb of tension as possible & then adapt to the individual instrument.
You mention that you previously used 46 30 20 13p. (GDAE)
On a 23" scale tenor guitar, those strings will each be close to 20lb of tension but, you would like a little less tension so ... try 45w 30w 17w 12p that is what I use on my less heavily braced 23" scale guitars.
I have tried 42w & 28w but they do not work well for me on my guitars but of course you could try them yourself.
Using one of the online tension calculators is really fun (for me anyway) it takes a bit of studying to get them working for tenor guitars & some sites offer slightly different results from others.
I will say I think it is really worth experimenting with string gauges. I have found that finding the right strings for you & your guitar might not be the ones available as a 4 string set, also single strings very often work out cheaper to buy!

[acousticphd]

Yes, the lighter set would be for CGDA tuning. I like to use a bit heavier bass strings for CGDA, eg 35/23/14/10. Switching to GDAE tuning with such a light gauge would cause intonation difficulties, both due to bridge compensation, and to tone-bending just due to normal fretting - the more so if it is a shorter scale. But in general, I do like C tuning (or B-flat, capoing to shorten the scale) on my tenor.

For GDAE tuning, it is pretty important to have a bridge/saddle designed for three wound strings (GDA) and one plain (E). If the bridge has a simple straight, uncompensated tope (ie, no saddle notches, like those on lots of older flattops with movable bridges), you may be able to get decent intonation by slanting the bridge to the best compromise angle, and then possibly modifying/filing the bridge saddles a little to fine-adjust. The key (imo) is getting the right A string - you may find that 0.022 or 0.023 is the lightest wound string that is readily available in bulk-orders online or in stores. But as fox suggests, a wound string of ~0.020 would be preferable.

The gauge you started with sounds reasonable, but the "feel" depends on a number of things. And the guitar needs to have a set-up appropriate for that tuning and string set. My guess would be that the "no-name" tenor, like most no-name guitar, probably has too high action, which is why the lighter strings felt nicer to play. So lowering the bridge height might be the necessary set-up mod.
You

[Jacob]

A few options:
D'Addario
Curt Mangan
GHS
John Pearse

Oops! These are for octave mandolin. My bad!

[A 4]

Thanks, fox. I don't know the brand of the guitar. When I measure from the nut to the 12th fret, I get 11 and 5/16 inches, so I think that makes the scale length 22 and 5/8 inches. I have seen those on line calculators (D'addario has one, for example), but I never knew how to interpret the results - estimates of tension in pounds or kilograms was not meaningful to me in my ignorance.

But now that I have tried two sets, I at least have a couple of points for comparison.

Also, I don't know why I didn't try tuning up to CGDA before, but I just did, and that is not what I am looking for. It's better it terms of buzzy looseness, but it sounded a little thin, and I would rather have more low-end guitar-type sound, and less overlap with mandolin.

[A 4]

Thanks, Jacob! I can't believe I didn't think of octave mandolin strings!

[A 4]

Thanks, acousticphd.

This guitar, as I said above, is of unkown type. Technically, it has a label in it, but it says "Sans Nom," along with the name of the French Canadian shop that refurbished it. It stained brown, and has replaced tuners, along with some repaired cracks. The bridge is an obvious handmade floating bridge, but it has a (fixed-height) bone saddle, filed for intonation adjustments. My last set had a plain A string, I will try a wound one in the future.

I think it was well setup, but that is hard for me to judge. I have difficulties playing it, but often that is because I am trying to the same reaches for a mandolin but on the guitar, like reaching for the fifth fret with the ring finger, or trying to use the same chord shapes.

[Joey McKenzie]

I use 34-24-16-10 on my old Martin and Gibson tenors which are tuned in standard tenor guitar tuning C-G-D-A. I buy D'addario singles and make my own sets using phosphor bronze for the wound strings.

Joey

[A 4]

Thanks, all. I'm about to place an order, and will try range of different sizes of individual strings, and play some more with the tension calculators before I do. It will be weeks to months before I can provide feedback however, unless they really work poorly, like the skinny ones I have on there now.

[WillFly]

There is a correlation between scale length, string gauges and tuning of the tenor guitar. Longer scale lengths don't make tuning in "standard" CGDA tuning easy. Don't forget that the top A string is 5 frets above the top string on a conventional guitar. Would you try and wind that string up to A from E on your 6-string? Well, a long scale length will almost certainly cause that top string to snap. So tuning to GDAE (octave mandolin) makes more sense.

The scale length from nut to saddle on my CGDA tenor is 22.5", and I use the top 4 strings from an Elixir .010 phosphor bronze Nanoweb set - .010, .014, .022, .032. These would flap around if I tuned to GDAE on my tenor.

[fox]

Will, those are pretty standard & popular for a tenor with that scale length, they obviously work very well for you!
However may I ask if you have ever tried any other gauges?

.010, .014, .022, .032. works out around ... 22.7lb 19.42lb 24.7 18.5lb = lbs. of pressure baaed on a 22.5in scale.
You might enjoy the sound of .010, .015, .022, .034. = 22.7lb 22.7lb 24.7lb 21.3lb
Or go the other way with lighter A & G strings.
The A is always right on the limit with CGDA tuning on a 23" scale a .009 will offer less pressure but will still be equally near its breaking point.
I now only use CGDA on my shorter scales (21") as it freaks me out getting that A in tune on my 23" scale

[A 4]

Am I right in thinking that pleasant string tension is between 20 and 25 pounds per string, then?


Fox suggested around 20 pounds in an earlier post, but just above is suggesting somewhat higher. I have not yet begun investigating all the possibilities.

[fox]

I always aim for 20lb per string as a starting point but, some commercial sets offer higher tension on some strings and less on others... However I would not recommend going 25 lb on each string, total tension is quite important if you don't want to damage the instrument.
70lb - 90lb seems the normal 'total' range.
For me at least, GDAE is an easier starting point than CGDA because the A (CGDA) is always a high tension string near it's breaking strain. (23" scale)
Delicate vintage instruments should be treated with respect, however the popular Blueridge tenor guitars are probably safe with 100lb of total tension!
For GDAE on a 23" scale tenor guitar you have a choice of using one or two plain strings although most folk seem to prefer one plain and three wound strings.
I rather like .012p .017p .030w .045w on one of my guitars.
I have tried .017w for the D rather than the more standard .020w and that works very well on a lighter braced guitar.
There seems to be a wide range and of pre packed strings with varying tensions and gauges available proving that several options will work!

[A 4]

Thanks, fox. I will play with the calculators this weekend, and order a few options. I think I should make sure to keep notes, though.