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Thread: String Choices vs Mando type vs Mando quality

  1. #1
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    Default String Choices vs Mando type vs Mando quality

    I'm currently playing my first set of Thomastiks on my first high end A model mando. I, quite honestly, struggle a bit with hearing the difference string choice makes simply because of the time between hearing one string set to the next string set. Having said that, I'm pleased with the sound from the Thomastiks on this mando, though I wouldn't choose it for acoustic jamming in a noisy environment (for me, often the case). For that I like my F models with J75's for the bark and volume. I think it's very interesting to try different sets on different mandos to discover the instruments character. I've been playing F models a long time and generally like the J75's on most of them. However, liked the 74's on this A model better. On the other hand, the Thomastiks I just put on have a clarity with some punch on this mando that I like very much. Next step is to try the D'Addario FW's ... The journey continues.

    I apologize ahead of time for a post that has been discussed ad nauseum ... my hope is that it is framed in a somewhat unique fashion.

    My question concerns string gauges, though I threw in FW vs round wound for flavor.
    My question for the astute members of the cafe is whether others have found that they like lighter gauges on A models vs F's?
    Another possibility is that this A model (it's a Dudenbostel), very likely has the most artfully carved top of any mandolin I own. Is it possible that it doesn't need the larger string gauge to drive it? So ... have others found they prefer lighter gauge strings on "high end" instruments? Or perhaps this particular "Dude" is such a delicate flower that it sounds better with lighter gauges?

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    Default Re: String Choices vs Mando type vs Mando quality

    Do you like green beans, Lima beans, brown beans or navy beans? Why? Why do some mandolins like heavy strings some light, some steel, some bronze? Who knows they just do.

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    My Florida is scooped pheffernan's Avatar
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    Default Re: String Choices vs Mando type vs Mando quality

    Some luthiers (like Ken Ratcliff) build with EJ75's in mind from the bench. Meanwhile, some players find that overstringing a mandolin can actually choke the tone. In your position, I'd start by contacting Lynn Dudenbostel for recommended gauges and then experiment with various brands / materials.
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    Default Re: String Choices vs Mando type vs Mando quality

    I believe, although it's difficult to prove, that whilst heavy strings (J75s) may be needed to drive the top on some mandolins, on others their higher tension can stop the top from moving. I'm not a great experimenter with strings and I tend to use J74s on everything but my National. The thing which puzzles me is that they feel lighter on some instruments and heavier on others!

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    Registered User sblock's Avatar
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    Default Re: String Choices vs Mando type vs Mando quality

    It seems thoroughly implausible to me that lighter gauges (J-74s) would generically sound better on A-models, and heavier gauges would generically sound better on F-models. As we've heard time and again, from experienced luthiers and players alike, the essential differences between A and F models tend to be purely cosmetic. They sound alike, other things being equal.

    That said, there are much larger differences among the various A-models, and among the various F-models, in the carving of their tops, the woods of their tops, the response of their tops, and so on. No question about it: different mandolins respond differently to different string gauges, and some tend to sound a bit better with heavier strings, while others sound a bit better with lighter strings. That's just how it is. Your Dudenbostel A may just sound better with lighter strings. String tension can, and does, affect a whole lot of vibrational characteristics, so generalizations to the effect that these "can stop the top from moving" are purely conjectural and on thin ice, from a physical standpoint. The types of metals used, the types of string cores, the types of windings (flat, round, etc.), all affect the vibrational characteristics, too.

    It's worth experimenting with many types of strings (round wound, flat top, different metal compositions, different gauges) to find the sound you like best. And that may be different from the sound that another player might prefer. There is no reason to whatsoever to believe that one type of string will sound best on all mandolins, anyway -- irrespective of the model.

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    Default Re: String Choices vs Mando type vs Mando quality

    The first mandolin I used was a homemade F. My dad lent it to me with 11-40 strings. It was easy to play, but the E was too soft. I put an EJ75 set on and it balanced the volume very well. When I got my Eastman, it had very light strings, maybe 10 for the E. Again, put on the 75s, instant improvement. My dad's Doyle Lawson just got restrung the same way and he says it sounds better.

    As far as F models go, I'm done experimenting and going with the coated versions in the future. I have no experience with A models, but I'd start with 75s.
    Soliver arm rested and Tone-Garded Northfield Model M with D’Addario NB 11.5-41, picked with a Wegen Bluegrass 1.4

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    Default Re: String Choices vs Mando type vs Mando quality

    Well .... I play hard use a heavy pick and prefer a heavier string ... something with a .115 E string. I usually play a Gibson 88 F5L or 90 A5L. I have used .11 gauge E strings sets XJ74's and others and they sound fine but don't last as long for me. I usually push a light set to it's limits in about a month to six weeks. The heavier sets last two to three months. I do use 74's on my oval hole Gibson in view of it's advanced age. They sound just fine. We will see how long they last.
    I love hanging out with mandolin nerds . . . . . Thanks peeps ...

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    Default Re: String Choices vs Mando type vs Mando quality

    A friend of mine & a fellow UK Cafe member used to use Thomastik strings on his Heiden "A" style when he first got it. To say that they were 'underpowered' would be a gross understatement,it was just above silent !.They simply didn't 'drive' it. He changed over to J74's (now EJ74's) & it really came to life. I'm not sure,but i think that he now has DR MD11's on it.

    I've found that heavier strings ie. J75's, sound a tad 'thuddy' in the bass on 2 of mine & they also need more picking power to get them moving. The lower notes also seem to have less sustain. You just need to do what most of us do,select a few string brands / gauges & try them out.

    GHS A270's work superbly well on my Ellis "A" style,so they might be worth a try,
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    Default Re: String Choices vs Mando type vs Mando quality

    as has been said, I have come to understand (and I believe strongly) that there is NO difference between A's and F's as far as the sound chamber and general architecture go. (Now, there IS a structural difference between mandolins with a 12th-fret vs a 15th-fret joint, but those could be both A's and F's, too.)

    Anyway, every mandolin is different. I tried thomastiks a few years back on my Collings MT, and liked them when picking solo, and doing some jazzy chord bits, but in a jam, it sounded like the mandolin was stuffed with underpants.

    I also had a go with heavier strings on my MT, and I thought it helped the volume. (Although, like you said, hard to remember subtle characteristics of the old strings once the new strings are on. Plus, they're old strings. So the new ones usually sound better all the way around.) But on my last string change, I went back to 11-40's, and I feel like playability and tone improved with the lighter gauge. I haven't used the mandolin in a jam since down-gauging, but I'm pretty confident the volume is just fine, too.

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    Default Re: String Choices vs Mando type vs Mando quality

    Quote Originally Posted by terzinator View Post
    as has been said, I have come to understand (and I believe strongly) that there is NO difference between A's and F's as far as the sound chamber and general architecture go. (Now, there IS a structural difference between mandolins with a 12th-fret vs a 15th-fret joint, but those could be both A's and F's, too.)

    Anyway, every mandolin is different. I tried thomastiks a few years back on my Collings MT, and liked them when picking solo, and doing some jazzy chord bits, but in a jam, it sounded like the mandolin was stuffed with underpants.

    I also had a go with heavier strings on my MT, and I thought it helped the volume. (Although, like you said, hard to remember subtle characteristics of the old strings once the new strings are on. Plus, they're old strings. So the new ones usually sound better all the way around.) But on my last string change, I went back to 11-40's, and I feel like playability and tone improved with the lighter gauge. I haven't used the mandolin in a jam since down-gauging, but I'm pretty confident the volume is just fine, too.
    Haha. Stuffed with underpants.

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    Default Re: String Choices vs Mando type vs Mando quality

    The consensus is that F and A models sound the same. The big difference is in the shape of the sound hole(s). Oval hole instruments generally have a different sound than F holes. Sometimes people are confused as to what constitutes an "F style".

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    Default Re: String Choices vs Mando type vs Mando quality

    One thing is for sure. A 'high end' mandolin is much more responsive to not only different kinds of strings, but how you play the instrument.

    I suppose there is some difference in string changes in a $500 mandolin's response. But it is crude and fairly basic. (But you need to know what will motivate the thing.)

    It is a real pleasure to experiment with a 'high end' mandolin because it will do so many different things. Really good players can have more subtle tricks at their command.

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    Default Re: String Choices vs Mando type vs Mando quality

    I agree it would be interesting to hear Mr. Dudenbostal's input. As stated earlier, Silverangels are built with EJ75 gauges in mind, and there's definitely a difference in how mine sounds and the volume with 75s vs 74s or Elixirs, though it handles either gauge reasonably well. My Kentucky 675-S, on the other hand, really needs heavier strings. It was built the first year they moved construction to China and were still working out some (very expected) kinks. It's a little overbuilt IMO, and the heavier strings make a huge difference. I think I like 75s better on my Eastman as well, but really haven't had it long enough to know for sure, yet. My Flatiron 1N and Martin style A really sing with very light gauges.

    Back to my desire to hear Mr. Dude's input, as I'd bet it will be educational...
    Chuck

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    Default Re: String Choices vs Mando type vs Mando quality

    Thanks very much to all for your input. Still learning new things about mando's, which I hope is a lifelong process.

    This "Dude" is my one and only mando with a Carpathian spruce top. I understand Mr Dudenbostel encourages his owners to order Carpathian, though he will build with red spruce, and perhaps others, if the customer specifies. I suspect the Carpathian top has as much to do with it's responsiveness as anything else.
    However, if an individual mando responds "better" with lighter gauge strings it may be that the top is thinner at the recurve, perhaps thinner in general, or perhaps there are greater differences in thicknesses across the top? Also perhaps thinner/lighter bracing (tone bars)? I'm the second owner so ... it'd be good to know. The Case Notes provided do not specify the original string gauges or suggest string gauges appropriate for the instrument.

    I will send Mr Dudenbostel an email and report back. He may feel my questions are a bit tedious and tell me, like some here have suggested, to play whatever strings sounds best to me. But I am still interested in what he has to say and trust that he will welcome my curiosity ... the journey continues.

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    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: String Choices vs Mando type vs Mando quality

    Quote Originally Posted by David L View Post
    The consensus is that F and A models sound the same. The big difference is in the shape of the sound hole(s). Oval hole instruments generally have a different sound than F holes. Sometimes people are confused as to what constitutes an "F style".
    Agreed, but the other factor is often how the top is braced: tonebars vs. x-braced vs. transverse (traditional oval Gibsons). Also factor in where the bridge is located on the top therefore longer necks vs. shorter. This is so often overlooked. See current thread on Ellis A4 which is an oval hole hybrid tho it certainly resembles an old Gibson.

    My Brentrup A4C is a modernized copy of a vintage Gibson with transverse bracing and shorter neck join.

    As for strings: lately I have been adding the nickel alloy strings now coming onto the market to the mix. I have been trying them also on my guitars -- more available for them at the moment, but that will change soon. Sam Bush Monels (discontinued by Gibson), prototype pure nickels by GHS and Bronze Nickel soon to be available by D'Addario.
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    Default Re: String Choices vs Mando type vs Mando quality

    To be clear, the Dudenbostel 1 - A (#65) I am honored to play has "ff" holes. I happen to like the percussive "chop" sound afforded, in part, by "ff" hole mandolins. It has a tone bar braced Carpathian spruce top and curly maple back and sides, is a 14 fret to cross piece neck joint, a Cumberland bridge, and is 1&3/32" at the nut, varnish finished.
    Through correspondence with Mr Dudenbostel, he built the mando to handle up to EJ 75 string gauges and some of his customers play heavier strings. However, he personally prefers lighter strings. He uses custom John Pearse pho/bro sets with the same gauges as EJ74's but will occasionally use 74's in a pinch. He is not a fan of flat wounds, especially if the A string is wound. He noted that D'Addario (I think) has a new "Chris Thile" set which is basically EJ75's on the A and E strings, and EJ74's on the G and D strings with EXP coating that many people like a lot. I was not aware of the CT set and may give those a try. He did not comment on top thickness or the characteristics of carpathian spruce tops, etc.
    He responded to my inquiry immediately and was gracious with his time and knowledge.
    Perhaps many of us, myself included, try too hard to create definitive guidelines, parameters, mandolin paradigms, etc. Fortunately, the mystery prevails and we are left to simply trust our own ears. The longer I play music the more I'm convinced of the importance of listening skills in the creation of music. I, perhaps, overlooked this when I posed the initial questions.

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    coprolite mandroid's Avatar
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    Default Re: String Choices vs Mando type vs Mando quality

    Don't forget there is Just Personal Preferences, as to what string sounds/feels right For You..

    and the style of music you choose to play..
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    Default Re: String Choices vs Mando type vs Mando quality

    Thanks for posting Mr. Dudenbostal's update. Just remembered as well that Taylor recommends light gauge strings for my 714 guitar, though it can structurally handle heavier strings. It's built to resonate best with lighter strings. I love its tone enough that I haven't even experimented with heavier strings...
    Chuck

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    Default Re: String Choices vs Mando type vs Mando quality

    I'm trying a new (to me) hybrid set of D'Addario strings with EXP 74 G and D strings and J75 A (0.16) and E (0.115) strings.

    This is the Chris Thile inspired set called EXP74CM. I like the feel of the heavier treble strings on my Phoenix Bluegrass so far. They feel better balanced to me and I like the extra punch of the A and E strings.
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