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Thread: LR Baggs Session DI - anyone tried it for Mandolin?

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    Default LR Baggs Session DI - anyone tried it for Mandolin?

    Hi,

    I have a Para DI that I use for mandolin as well as my violin. I'm happy with it, but would like to have one dedicated for each as the needed/preferred setting are quite different between the two and I want to be able to switch faster.

    I'm considering getting the Session DI instead. This would provide an extra kind of tool, but I'm wondering if the EQ compressor and sound fits a mandolin. It's marketed as quite optimized for guitar. My mandolin has a twin-piezo pickup, that works quite well.

    Best regards,

    Anders

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    Default Re: LR Baggs Session DI - anyone tried it for Mandolin?

    I have both the para acoustic and the session, use both for mandolin and guitar, both are well built, they have similar signal modification and work well for mandolin, the stomp switches (boost and tuner) are sometimes useful, the tuner is reasonably accurate but I use mostly just to kill the signal between sets. I think the session achieves a warmer sound but it could be that's just what I want to hear ...

  3. #3

    Default Re: LR Baggs Session DI - anyone tried it for Mandolin?

    Thanks, it sounds like the one you have is the Venue and not the Session. The Session is the new one without actual EQ settings but with build in compression and saturation to provide a bit of sound processing.

    http://www.lrbaggs.com/preamps/sessi...coustic-preamp

    It sounds cool (in the recorded examples I've heard) for guitar. But I'm a bit reluctant if I'll miss the EQ.

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    Registered User foldedpath's Avatar
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    Default Re: LR Baggs Session DI - anyone tried it for Mandolin?

    Quote Originally Posted by ahjessen View Post
    Thanks, it sounds like the one you have is the Venue and not the Session. The Session is the new one without actual EQ settings but with build in compression and saturation to provide a bit of sound processing.

    http://www.lrbaggs.com/preamps/sessi...coustic-preamp

    It sounds cool (in the recorded examples I've heard) for guitar. But I'm a bit reluctant if I'll miss the EQ.
    I haven't used this new unit, but the words "saturation" and "compression" raise red flags for me. At least for any acoustic instrument pickup.

    I think it's fair to say that the majority of musicians, especially amateurs, have no idea how to use compression in a live situation, and it can easily cause feedback problems. Every db of added compression is basically a db of headroom lost in available gain before feedback.

    Compression can be a useful tool in fattening up a sound, and bringing it "forward" in a mix so the instrument is more clearly heard, but it's best used (IMO) by the front-of-house engineer with a high-end PA system. Or in one of the new compact digital mixers, but only if you know what you're doing and can balance compression against feedback. If I wanted compression in my PA rig, I'd use an actual compressor where I'd have control over the threshold, attack and release settings, and not rely on a built-in, blind compression algorithm.

    As far as saturation goes... I once went through a phase where I thought a light bit of tube saturation would be a cool thing for my acoustic guitar. I actually bought an expensive acoustic/electric amp that could do this: a Rivera Sedona. It's the only "acoustic" amp that was ever 100% tube, with the ability to overdrive the preamp into light saturation. After using it for a few years I finally sold it off. Too heavy, and the effect wasn't worth it. Clean sound reproduction is where it's at, with acoustic instruments.

    Just my 2 cents. Like I said, I haven't heard this pedal, it just seem like a bad idea in theory.

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    Registered User almeriastrings's Avatar
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    Default Re: LR Baggs Session DI - anyone tried it for Mandolin?

    I agree with that.

    I'd also suggest that there could be a problem with mandolin and this box... because the compressor that is in there is a dynamic multi-band type with non-adustable, fixed bands and relative thresholds, designed for use with guitar. Acoustic guitar and mandolin put out quite different signals, not only in frequency but dynamically. As Foldedpath says... compression of any kind can be an effective, but also dangerous, tool... and you need to know when and how to use it, and you need a reasonable degree of control over what it is doing and how it works. The "one-knob" type compressors do have real drawbacks, and that is what you get on here. Given the fairly high price, also worth noting there is only one available notch filter and four fixed high pass filters....the latter would be far better if it was fully variable. Saturation in this context is a gimmick... it is another word for faked tube/transformer harmonic distortion.

    I'd pass on this box. Costs a lot and too many limitations.
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    Default Re: LR Baggs Session DI - anyone tried it for Mandolin?

    Thanks all. Regarding the compressor being difficult to adjust, this seems like exactly the issue Baggs try to hit with this and as said it seems to work as intended on guitar. What I wondered was also the different dynamics and spectral content guitar vs. mandolin.

    Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences. I just found a used Baggs Venue that I'll see if I can get my hands on instead. It also solves the issue that I'd really appreciate having a tuner easily connected and the one I have now is used for the violin in the board.

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    Default Re: LR Baggs Session DI - anyone tried it for Mandolin?

    For what it's worth, I have been really happy with a Boss GE-7 graphic equalizer for my mandolin.
    It's been a huge help in getting a sound I like. Not that expensive either.

    I am one of the few people I know who uses a soundhole magnetic pick-up in my mandolin, similar to a Fishman Rare Earth guitar pick-up. It is a 10 string mandolin, however.

    https://www.boss.info/us/products/ge-7/
    David A. Gordon

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    Default Re: LR Baggs Session DI - anyone tried it for Mandolin?

    You're right, sorry, I do have the Venue. Time for my dose of humility. I agree that the Session sounds like it may not work as well for mando range of frequencies.

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    Registered User foldedpath's Avatar
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    Default Re: LR Baggs Session DI - anyone tried it for Mandolin?

    Quote Originally Posted by ahjessen View Post
    Thanks all. Regarding the compressor being difficult to adjust, this seems like exactly the issue Baggs try to hit with this and as said it seems to work as intended on guitar.
    Right, that's the approach here. But it's a "dumbed down" approach to compression, where someone at LR Baggs is deciding how your instrument should sound, instead of you making those decisions. It's not so much that a compressor is difficult to adjust, but that in this case all the normal settings for threshold, attack, and release are hidden under the hood.

    What I wondered was also the different dynamics and spectral content guitar vs. mandolin.
    That's the other potential issue with mandolin. If the EQ frequencies chosen for multiband compression are aimed at the "problem frequencies" for guitar (and I don't know what the heck they're talking about here, unless it's maybe a typical 100 Hz body resonance?), then those frequencies may not work well for mandolin. Not much going on at 100 Hz with a mandolin!

    Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences. I just found a used Baggs Venue that I'll see if I can get my hands on instead. It also solves the issue that I'd really appreciate having a tuner easily connected and the one I have now is used for the violin in the board.
    The Venue has had some good reports here on the Cafe; seems like a solid unit. One thing to keep in mind is that it can't be phantom powered from a mixer like the LR Baggs PADI, and with all those features it's more drain on batteries than some other pedals. You might want to plan on adding an AC adapter, if you're swapping batteries too often.

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    working musician Jim Bevan's Avatar
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    Default Re: LR Baggs Session DI - anyone tried it for Mandolin?

    Well, I'll play the devil's advocate here, just for the sake of argument.

    I played keyboards in a Cirque du Soleil band for years with a very loud drummer, the whole band used "in-ears", and we had a monitor guy mixing for us. I used a TC Electronics Triple-C multi-band compressor to attenuate the frequencies that I found annoying when they got too loud. I would stay after work and practise mandolin or mandola, and boy, it sounded great through the Triple-C, making the exageratedly-dynamic pickup's signal sound much more like the acoustic sound of the instrument.

    I used an MXR DynaComp on my mandolin when I got home, but it died recently, and I can't use the Triple-C because of the voltage. I'm using a Para-DI with the mids rolled off a little, but I'd much rather use it flat and use the Triple-C. My point is, these multi-band compressors are pretty flexible so matter how you set 'em -- if it's set for guitar (which is only an octave different anyways), then yeah, it'll be set to attenuate a frequency that a guitar is likely to produce, but so what? If my mandolin doesn't produce that frequency, then nothing's going to happen anyway.

    I'd love to at least try it out -- if it's set up nicely, and I don't see why it wouldn't be given their track record, then it might just sound great. The one at work wasn't set up at all for mandolin, it was just set up to get rid of overall harshness, and it worked just fine for mandolin.

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    Registered User foldedpath's Avatar
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    Default Re: LR Baggs Session DI - anyone tried it for Mandolin?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Bevan View Post
    I used an MXR DynaComp on my mandolin when I got home, but it died recently, and I can't use the Triple-C because of the voltage. I'm using a Para-DI with the mids rolled off a little, but I'd much rather use it flat and use the Triple-C. My point is, these multi-band compressors are pretty flexible so matter how you set 'em -- if it's set for guitar (which is only an octave different anyways), then yeah, it'll be set to attenuate a frequency that a guitar is likely to produce, but so what? If my mandolin doesn't produce that frequency, then nothing's going to happen anyway.
    Well, the thing that's going to happen anyway is compression of the signal, which reduces the available headroom against feedback. Playing at home, that's not a problem unless you're really cranking your amp. Playing in a venue and having to keep on top of feedback, especially if you're not using in-ears for monitoring? That's a potential nightmare unless you have a good FOH engineer running the show.

    That was my basic point; that if you're running your own weekend warrior PA with all the attendant distractions, or if you're in a venue where the house PA guy isn't exactly pro-level, then a compression pedal is an invitation to feedback problems. The added saturation is also a potential feedback problem for acoustic instruments, because saturation is basically another form of compression.

    I'd love to at least try it out -- if it's set up nicely, and I don't see why it wouldn't be given their track record, then it might just sound great. The one at work wasn't set up at all for mandolin, it was just set up to get rid of overall harshness, and it worked just fine for mandolin.
    It may be that this pedal works without causing feedback problems, but I'd like to hear some reports from "the field," especially in challenging feedback-prone venues. Someone go out and buy one, then report back.

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    working musician Jim Bevan's Avatar
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    Default Re: LR Baggs Session DI - anyone tried it for Mandolin?

    Quote Originally Posted by foldedpath View Post
    Someone go out and buy one, then report back.
    I suppose that that was my basic point.

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