I don't know anything about 1920's-30's Martin mandolins. #I know there have been threads on this subject before but I can't remember much of the details. #
How do they play & sound? How do they #compare to old Gibson A's? Any advice? (pro or con)#
Thanks,
KK
Can I assume you're discussing the archtop series: styles 15, 2-15, 20, 2-20, and 2-30? #All were made with quality spruce and maple, often sportng very attractive figure, and all resulted from some of the best, most consistent craftsmanship to have originated in an American mass producer (Martin). #Personally, I don't think the f-holed models (those with the prefix 2) were very successful. #They seem too thin-toned for my taste and the top plate often seems to crack or collapse between bridge and tailpiece. #However, the oval-holed models (15, 20, and 30) were mighty tasty. #If they had appeared a few years earlier, I think they might have been very popular with the mandolin orchestra crowd. #I am very lucky in being friendly with the owner of one of only two Martin style 30 mandolins produced (I doubt the second survives; if you find it, please let me know in enough time to procure a loan). #The style 30 must be the most neatly crafted, aesthetic and graceful production mandolin I've ever seen (including anything I've seen of pre-depression Gibsons). #Mmmm...
With a couple of exceptions, like this Style 2-30:
...Martin used the shorter 13" scale most associated with Neapolitan mandolins, which gives both the flat and arched mandolins a commonality. I have a few Martins, a style 15 which I love (it's carved, oval-hole maple and spruce), but it's no match for a Gibson in terms of volume. Very sweet.
Interestingly, the flatbacked Martins with the cranked tops like this A model:
...really punch through. I find them in ensemble situations to be noticeably louder than any of the Gibsons. Not as complex a sound, but volume and penetration to spare. Still the 13" scale.
I also have a Martin Style D flatback, and its sound is really rather dainty. It's like the eggshell version of the beefier A above, even though it's made in the same molds. Maybe all the abalone fru-fru is killing the sound.
Martin made bowlbacks as well, of course, but their heyday was pretty much over by the 20s-30s. Still, they are generally fine instruments and ridiculously underpriced for the quality of construction and sound.
I have a 1949 style 2-15. It's a lovely instrument, with a really nice neck profile too, and the fit and finish are flawless. But I'd have to agree with all the above comments about the tone; I've sadly had to put it aside for a teens Gibson A. I have seen a Martin style B played at Irish sessions that could be heard just fine though.
My photo didn't load...let's try this again:
Here's another that shows the interesting, violin-like bridge design on the
2-15 and 2-30 series Martins:
Are you sure it's a D? ...Do you know how rare they are? ...And wow! Martin logged only seven style D mandolins.Originally Posted by (Paul Hostetter @ May 26 2005, 23:07)
For all the consistency of Martin craftsmanship, their instruments were still made of wood which is an organic and inherently inconsistent raw material. Every once in a while, there will be a sonic clunker. I love Martin mandolins. My main mandolin is a one-of-a-kind 1908 bowlback with tone and volume that I find heavenly, but I once owned a 1915 style 2 that was simply too thin-voiced and trebly with no bass.
As we're on Martin, a few more questions...The koa they used- the earlier ones seem a bit flamier, anyone know why? I've heard it was because the koa trees used later were younger, I don't know about tree growth. Second, how would one describe the sound between a Martin AK (koa), a Martin B with Brazilian rosewood/spruce, and a Martin A with mahogany/spruce?
Third, are the 20-40's Martin A's built the same as a 70's? The woods are the same, they look the same. Are they pretty much the same?
Don't you just love a flamey koa? The later ones I've seen just look sorta like mahogany.
Neal - I think the Martin A's have barely changed at all over the years. I liked the gears and the cases on earlier ones better.
Eugene - it's a Style C, vintage 1919. Years ago (pre-Mike Longworth) Jon Lundberg had me convinced it was a style D because he said the D had abalone and the C had colored marquetry, which was the case later on. In my era of production however, the C still had abalone. That early bit of info remains in my head because I don’t think about it often. Here are some photos I just took of it this morning:
Here are some of my Style 15 from 1935:
I played for years with an Italian mandolinist named Riccardo Tunzi who had one the very first two Style 15s ever made. He bought it from Sherman and Clay in SF in 1929, new. It had an ebony pickguard and binding.
Here are the backs of the headstocks of the two. Same outline. Sure wish you could buy these gears today.
Paul,
Thanks for the photos. You have a stunning collection. Any chance of a little show and tell at Lark Camp this summer?
Keith
I have thought of bringing more than one mandolin to Lark, but we camp and only have a small station wagon with a roof rack. Robin's got two different santouris and her little accordion, and all I've been able to bring is a guitar, the laouto, a mandolin, and maybe one other thing. Last year I brought a fiddle to sell (turned out to be a good move) and so I probably won't be able to do more this year. Same car! If I can borrow a larger vehicle maybe I can schlep more stuff! This year I'll have some of Sheri Mignano's new Italian tune books though, plus asst'd other swag.
Thanks again Paul for sharing this stuff online here. I never tire of this stuff! Wish I knew about your work when I lived in SC, so many years ago now...
The biggest difference was that the very early A styles were backed in Brazilian rosewood.
Thanks for the shots of your C, Paul. Word of a potential D got me quite worked up.
For the curious, there are a number of Martins posted in the "Post a Picture of your Bowlback" topic.
Hope your heart rate has returned to normal, Eugene. Sorry for the scare!
The Style B was made into the 40s and it was always rosewood. I have found these items much closer to the mahogany As in tone and oomph than my Style C (had one in not long ago). So I’m not sure the real difference is in the wood choice so much as some other detail of manufacture, such as top thickness.
I have a neighbor who has a Style AK - all koa - which is a fantastic mandolin. The basic difference between the AK and the BK was the same as between Martin's correspondent guitars at that time, the 18K and the 28K. The lower models used plainer wood, and generally sounded better. Figure in koa usually, if not always, confers a liability on the tone when it's used for a top. I wish more people used plain koa for instruments. It looks at least as nice as walnut and it’s fine-sounding stuff.
Paul, What's a BK? And, like everyone else, I suppose I should look for less figured on the top, but they look so durn nice when they're flamey. Thanks.
Neal - Style B, koa (hence, BK).
Bob DeVellis
Thanks - my post above was inadvertently misleading: "...a neighbor who has a Style AK - all koa," as if the A and K stood for All and Koa. Duh, sorry. It's A (the model) + koa, and the B (the model + koa. The difference between the As and Bs is degree of decoration and basic materials. Like styles 18 and 28 in the guitars.
That's where I was confused. I know the A stands for,well, an A style, but was unaware that they made a B style with koa. Any pics of one? And did it have a spruce top, or was it all koa?
My limited experience was the B was an A style with Brazilian rosewood and spruce and a little more ornamentation, not much but a little more and had the cool headstock and closed tuners. Any more info, please share, I find these to be very interesting.
And Paul, I really like your style 15, that's a beaut. Kinda like the L&H.
The Style 15 is a lot like an L&H. More than it's like any Gibson.
Style B was rosewood and spruce, nice binding and details unless it was a BK, in which case it was all koa instead. The only BK photos I can think of are in the Longworth book. Try Google images?
Interseting thread. I've only played one Martin mandolin, the one I own (1977 A). It's a sweet and pleasant mandolin and a nice strummer. Not powerful but very good.
1914 Gibson A-4
2002 Collings MT-2
2004 Brentrup L-21V
2008 A.L. Smart A-5
Here's my old Martin koa:
1925 AK
Great pic's guys. #I've learned a lot reading your responses. #I know some (& that is a very relative term) about old Gibson's so I'm just expanding my mando-horizons (which is making my husband nervous...I think he has recently hidden the checkbook & credit cards)
Any body know much about 20's-30's Strad-o-lin's, Recording King or Studio King? #
KK
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