Don Julin's beat-up Nugget for sale

[sgarrity]

They're made to be played. Personally, I like pick guards because it's a guide for my right hand and I like the aesthetics of them. All the other aftermarket accessories I find much too cumbersome. On my top 100 things to worry about the wear and tear on someone else's instrument ranks around 999....

[Ron McMillan]

I would dearly love a sweet old Nugget, even one with a lot of honest play wear. But if I was going to spend that kind of money, I'd want one that said Nugget on the headstock.

[Tom Wright]

The mandolin Emory Lester was playing at the Mandolin Symposium had the thin clear vinyl applied directly to the top where normally a pickguard would go. It was too late to save the varnish-free area it protected (maybe from someone else---I didn't ask) but it would save the wood from collecting dirt and wearing more.

If a pickguard feels wrong it is still easy to protect the wood, with clear vinyl also being an option where an armrest would go.

[George R. Lane]

I think we have beat this subject as much as Don's Nugget.

[Jim Garber]

FWIW some of my favorite mandolin players:



I know! Some of these folks have retired their workhorse instruments at least from touring. I agree with our guru Scott tho, "Mandolins are for making music." None of mine are pristine and I try and play them daily. If they get a scratch it happens.

[Larry Simonson]

My take on it is that it doesn't make much sense to thin out a mandolin top made by such a highly respected and admired luthier as Mike Kemnitzer.

[Jeff Mando]

One could spend the odd $6,500 on a tin of shoe polish.

I don't think it would cost that much to get it looking good again, I think a $2 tin of dark brown polish should cover most of the worn spots and save ya having to refinish it! That or Old English!

Just joking.........

[onassis]

marvel how worked up some of you get with your opinions and criticism of others for doing what they wish with their own property

Exactly

[Buck]

I am not sure why folks don't use these things: they can make a big difference.

Pick guards don't bother me, so I don't take them off if they're on a mandolin, but I don't add them if they're not.

On the other hand, I loathe the look and feel of armrests and Tone-Guards, especially armrests. I wouldn't use them if you paid me to. It doesn't bother me terribly that other people think differently though.

[Spruce]

"Mandolins are for making music."

[Br1ck]

I bought my Silverangel for the tone. The fact that they are pre distressed to one degree or another is just part of the package. I love the look of older instruments, and the Silverangel is really well done. I was amazed to see pickguard mounting holes on an instrument that never had a pickguard. A bonus is not having to baby the mandolin. The play wear is most definitely not honest.

[Atlanta Mando Mike]

I've never known a player to not buy the instrument that had the sound over aesthetics. Shoot, if it has the sound, most don't let structural issues stop them. Clarence White shot his guitar before Tony got hold of it. When Tony got it, it was unplayable. You get it or you don't. I personally don't want a perfect mandolin, I like character and I don't want to be worried about little things.

[Steve Ostrander]

Don's been around, the Ellis has been around. I don't see a problem.....

[Jim Garber]

Don's been around, the Ellis has been around. I don't see a problem.....

What Ellis? Wasn't this a Nugget?

[Astro]

What Ellis? Wasn't this a Nugget?

Its an old Nugget owned by Don that says Gibson mistaken by Steve for an Ellis.

I take it that Don likes to distress his finishes prior to selling, and he does a good job. But he's really slow at it.

This thread reads like a general store jam conversation between deaf old men pickers.

Get the wax (and Hair) out your ears.

[Larry Simonson]

Isn't there some element of owners being responsible caretakers when their instruments have gained world class status?

[Mandolin Cafe]

Wanted, dead or alive, sought by members of Mandolin Cafe Forum for crimes against the care and feeding of mandolins.

David Grisman
Bill Monroe (deceased)
Chris Thile
Mike Marshall
John Reischman
Don Julin
Andy Statman
Dempsey Young (deceased)
Frank Wakefield
Jody Stecher

... and (fill in the blank, hundreds of others). Feel free to add your own.

[barry]

Isn't there some element of owners being responsible caretakers when their instruments have gained world class status?

Only if the owner is a collector of iconic instruments whose world-class status is based on prior ownership by a musical legend.
Jim Irsay would not want to "speed neck" Jerry Garcia's Tiger guitar, Elvis's Martin, nor John Lennon's Vox.

[Astro]

Only if the owner is a collector of iconic instruments whose world-class status is based on prior ownership by a musical legend.
Jim Irsay would not want to "speed neck" Jerry Garcia's Tiger guitar, Elvis's Martin, nor John Lennon's Vox.

Nor refinish Don Julin's.

[Jim Garber]

Wanted, dead or alive, sought by members of Mandolin Cafe Forum for crimes against the care and feeding of mandolins.

David Grisman
Bill Monroe (deceased)
Chris Thile
Mike Marshall
John Reischman
Don Julin
Andy Statman
Dempsey Young (deceased)
Frank Wakefield
Jody Stecher

... and (fill in the blank, hundreds of others). Feel free to add your own.

Yup. Andy and Matt Flinner, Barry Mitterhoff and Tim O'Brien on my previous post.

[Mandobar]

Matt just had a lot of work done on his Gil. The binding is fixed, new tailpiece, etc. It looks great.

[Don Julin]

Good morning mando forum folks. I would like to clarify a few things about this instrument, but most likely won't be able to address all the issues brought up in this thread, as I would be pecking away at this keyboard all day. This is what I know. I purchased it from Gruhn's about 5 years ago.(A Givens F5 and a few buckets of cash) It looked like is does today. I am not sure how it got so worn but it surely had been played a lot before I purchased it. I saw what I thought was an old beat up F5 with a very recognizable logo on the headstock. I pulled it down from the wall and was very impressed with the sound and the way it played. I looked at the price tag and even though the price was not cheap, it was not as much as the headstock would imply. I looked inside and saw Mikes signature and knew what I had in my hands.

I, just like many of you readers have been lusting over Nugget mandolins for many years. The sound, power, clarity, and playability of the Nuggets that I had played made me want to own one. Now to be clear, the workmanship, inlays, finish, and cosmetic properties of some Nuggets are outstanding, but in a jam or on a mic I have never found these cosmetic values to improve my playing or tone in any way. The mandolin in this discussion was just at Nugget's shop for fretwork, new MOP nut, and bridge work. He gave it a clean bill of health and appraised it at 19k.

I can tell you thing, when you enter a jam session with this mandolin, you will be noticed, first by the sound, next by the name on the headstock, followed by a long discussion of why Nugget would have done that. The discussion ends every time with "that's a really good mandolin". It was my main mandolin for about 2 years and was used on many youtube videos and the Billy Strings & Don Julin CD "Fiddle Tune X". It has not seen as much action since I have acquired a 1991 Nugget Two-point that I like even more. I should tell all of you folks that are more cosmetically minded that this Nugget two-point is clean and fancy. Inlays, fancy exotic wood finger rest, it even sports a tone-guard.

So if you are looking for a mando to polish every Saturday afternoon, keep looking, but if you want to own a serious bluegrass hoss, this could be the one. I will post videos of this instrument and even a photo of the two point that has become my main Nugget.

Cheers
Don

[Jim Garber]

Matt just had a lot of work done on his Gil. The binding is fixed, new tailpiece, etc. It looks great.

I took a workshop with him a year or two ago and I played that Gilchrist. It is a nice one, for sure and nicely played in. I believe he did all the distressing with years of playing but nice that he had it renewed, too.

[sblock]

I think some of the comments about "only" caring about how an instrument sounds, and not looks, are a trifle unrealistic, or at least exaggerated for the sake of making a point about what makes a given instrument great. I get that. However --

if it were 100% true that the appearance an instrument didn't count for anything -- just the sound -- then instruments without any cosmetic adornments (no beautiful grain, no binding, no inlay, no sunburst, no scroll, and so on) would sell for the same price as their fancier counterparts. Only they don't. The fancier counterparts cost more, and take more time, to produce, and if they commanded similar prices in the market (because no one actually cared much about this, just the sound), then no luthier would attempt them, and all instruments would be similarly functional, and never fancy. But we all know that's not the case.

If large amounts of playing wear, for example a splintered top, or one with holes worn through the finish, did not detract in any way from an instrument's value, then used instruments with large amounts of play wear would go for identical prices as those without such wear. Only that's not the case. Don Julin's ersatz 'Gibson' (and a genuine Nugget) might well have been worth more than what he's asking were it not for the unfortunate peghead inlay and for the poor condition of the top. Of course, being a Nugget and the provenance of having been owned and played by a talented mandolinist (Don) would otherwise have driven the asking price up, and not down, from the mean.

Of course, in the collector's market (think Lloyd Loar Gibsons from 1922-24), or in markets where collectors have a significant impact, original condition counts for a great deal, and can make an enormous difference in the resale value. That would seem to be beyond dispute. But I agree that this is a special condition, brought about mainly by the collector mentality, not the player mentality! This is little different from the antiquities market, in general, where provenance and condition dominate.

But for the main instrument market, dominated by players, for mandolins that cost from (say) $1,000 to $25,000, it's reasonable to ask what role the condition of the instrument plays in its resale value. OF COURSE the sound counts for an awful lot -- as it surely should! -- but does it count for everything? Personally, I think not. Pretty much all experienced dealers of used mandolins will tell you that the condition affects their appraisals, at both the low end and the high end.

I appreciate and respect those who have written in to say that all they care about is the sound. That said, I'm not certain that's entirely true in all cases (some seem to care if it's an A model or an F, for example), but I'd wager that their opinions are not in the majority. Because if they were, then beat-up Nuggets would command the same prices as pristine ones, all sounds being equal... Only they don't.

As for folks like me, I actually appreciate the fact that beat-up, but nevertheless great-sounding high-end instruments pull in lower resale prices than their cleaner counterparts. The decrease in market value, with no decrease in sound, helps to bring such instruments into a price range that's closer to what I can afford! I would happily accept this situation if it brought a Nugget or Dudensbostel or Gilchrist (insert your favorite here) down to the point where I might be able to buy one. Because I, like you, care about the sound, first and foremost! Meanwhile, I will protect my own mandolin with a pickguard and armrest, so it can retain as much resale value as possible, because one day I might be able trade it in for some beat-up Gilchrist or Nugget going for a firesale price!

[Spruce]

I think I'll just buy the thing so we can put this thread behind us...