Don Julin's beat-up Nugget for sale

[pops1]

I could help you play it.

[Mandoplumb]

I read shlock's last post and have to agree with him with one exception. I know a good mandolin player that is blind, when he tells me it doesn't matter to him what it looks like I believe it. I'm not taking his disability lightly,I'm just saying that is the only way that looks doesn't affect what we like. Sometimes we like something inspire of it's looks but looks are important to just about all of us.

[Mark Gunter]

but looks are important to just about all of us.

There's no doubt of this; but, follow that thought with this - what looks good? Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. Whether or not one of us understands this, the fact is that some people actually prefer the look of honest battle scars on an aged instrument. If it were not so, then marketeers would not be trying to capitalize on that with fake distressing of finishes. So, while this thread may be of value in discussing means of protecting your instruments, or in providing a place for people to air their opinions, in the end, sblock's own distress over why people some people don't use accessories to protect their mandolins has little more meaning than stating that people are different, behaving differently from one another and placing value differently than others.

[fatt-dad]

Any mandolin with that much wear would make me look like a poser. A performing musician would use their tools and get some greater level of distress than I could ever get! So, if I owned an instrument like the OP, it'd be obvious the wear was from somebody else - not me!

On that basis alone, I'd feel a bit awkward playing a mandolin that was so obviously, "Not mine!"

f-d

[flynyrdskynyrd]

FWIW, when Steve Gilchrist last saw my mandolin (about 3 years ago), I was a bit mortified to show it to him, since I've put quite a bit of wear on it. He looked it over and marveled at the back, which had long ago lost its gloss from years of being played (I don't use one of those "spider-web" things on the back). "How did you do that?!" He seemed genuinely happy to see the wear and nicks, front and back. My guess is that builders really want to see their instruments played, and of course they get a lot of gratification out of it---even when those instruments are perhaps pushed to their limits. My Gilchrist has aged and evolved over the last 23 years, just as I have, and our conversation continues in spite of the fact that we've probably done a little damage to each other.

[Don Julin]

Sounds pretty good to me in the YT video. I have watched all his instructional and Billy Strings videos and never noticed him playing it

Here are a few videos of me playing the mandolin in question.

[Don Julin]

And for all of you that desire a good looking mandolin, here is a photo of my fancy Nugget. BTW it is not for sale.

[sblock]

Don,

Wow! That two-point is drop-dead gorgeous. I envy you. The torch-and-wire headstock inlay is my all-time favorite design, and Nugget does the best new torch-and-wire inlays of any luthier I have even seen. May you have many years of playing bliss! And I am quite sure you will do everything you reasonably can to protect its beauty -- while playing it with abandon.

[Mandoplumb]

There's no doubt of this; but, follow that thought with this - what looks good? Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. Whether or not one of us understands this, the fact is that some people actually prefer the look of honest battle scars on an aged instrument. If it were not so, then marketeers would not be trying to capitalize on that with fake distressing of finishes. So, while this thread may be of value in discussing means of protecting your instruments, or in providing a place for people to air their opinions, in the end, sblock's own distress over why people some people don't use accessories to protect their mandolins has little more meaning than stating that people are different, behaving differently from one another and
placing value differently than others.

I totally agree. There I'd no accounting for taste, what some thinks is ugly another will think beautiful. My post was addressing those that said the sound was ALL they considered when choosing a mandolin, I don't believe many people aren't influenced by the appearance whatever may be their personal preference .

[Tom Wright]

The best-sounding mandolins I have heard in person are all Nuggets, including your F5, so I expect this is a winner. I hope you leave the pickguard on.

Others talk about battle scars and honest wear. My argument is that hand-contact wear is not honest wear because it is completely avoidable. If one doesn't like the feel of the pickguard they can do what Emory Lester did to save his mandolin from further damage and cover the existing wear with clear vinyl. People put this stuff on million-dollar violins and cellos. Why pickers are too proud to protect their axes is not explainable except by ignorance. Allowing completely avoidable damage is simply negligent destruction.

I don't freak out if I get a ding from accidental knock, but when I saw scratches developing on my Buchanan I immediately added a stick-on pickguard. I didn't wait for wear for my second Buchanan to add one. I did that before I even played it.

Wear on the neck is normal and that is why violins don't have varnish there. But that maple is sealed and survives well. The spruce top is thin and has a soft grain. It should be respected, not trashed through neglect. I am sick when I look at Mike Marshall's Monteleone 'cello. It's not character, it's tragedy.

[Jeff Mando]

Again, great discussion here! I still think it comes down to how you were raised and what values were instilled in you. Like polishing shoes -- do you make your bed every morning or just leave it? Do you have the neatest yard on your street or the worst? Do you drive a dirty car? Do you wash dishes or let them pile up? Same with laundry. Do you shave and bathe before leaving the house and running errands? Were you in the military? Did you grow up during the Depression or did your folks? The list of qualifying questions goes on and on, but it is safe to say it has little to do with the care of an instrument and more to do with one's upbringing and personal values of neatness, cleanliness, and one's relationship with money. (btw, I'm not a psychiatrist, but I play one on TV!)

[HoGo]

Signs of use are to be expected on well played instruments but there is very thin line between honest wear and abuse. If you accidentally hit a curb with your nicely polished shoes they'll get scratched the same as if you intentionally kick a stone. Without knowing what happened to instrument one cannot make conclusions. But at some point, if there is way too much damage one can question if the instrument has been used honestly or abused. SOme folks are really neglectful and excessive wear or damage will come sooner or later.
I had similar experience like Gilchrist when customer brought in instrument after 6 years for setup or refret and while there was some wear (finish worn off parts of neck etc.) it was all definately honest wear and the patina looked just gorgeous... if only I could replicate it right off the bench...

[Mark Marino]

Not wanting to add to the debate on this, just wanted to report (brag) that I got to play this fine instrument last evening. Impressive. Probably the best I've ever played- attack, responsiveness and tone. Now if I only can hit the lotto I can afford it!

[Jim Garber]

I love that term "honest wear". I suppose the opposite is "dishonest wear". I understand Adrian's comment that there is a thin line between the two. I think a lot of it has to do with different styles of playing. I guess the most honest wear would be fret wear on the first few frets. In other words this is, for the most part, unavoidable over time with instruments that are played often and long. OTOH would this be considered "dishonest wear": a player finds it inhibiting to his/her style of playing to use a pickguard on a mandolin and ends up wearing the top thinner? Yes, they can change the way they play and force themselves to play in a way to avoid the damage.

I would think that the same thing might be applied to those of us who develop a style of playing where they might injure parts of their body. The other day I was talking to a friend who is avidly learning fiddle who has developed some sort of rotator-cuff problem to the point that it disrupts his sleep. I asked him whether he should maybe consult with someone to change his stye of playing so he doesn't hurt himself over the long term but he says it is OK for now. I suppose that is his choice.

[Tom Wright]

...OTOH would this be considered "dishonest wear": a player finds it inhibiting to his/her style of playing to use a pickguard on a mandolin and ends up wearing the top thinner?..

Even this is not an issue, as one can apply clear vinyl with almost no thickness. If owners of million-dollar violins or cellos do this, someone with $20,000 in a fine mandolin might want to consider it.

Here's the real problem: allowing wear has an ending point, which is a hole. There is no value in a hole, even for Willie Nelson.

[Eric C.]

For every one instrument that has been rode hard, damaged, etc., there's 10 more in pristine care, and a few even distressed when new. Pretty sure this instrument won't sit around long, as people willing to spend this much are most likely paying for the sound and not the appearance.

Pretty simple really: Buy what you like. This is such a crazy discussion.

[pops1]

I am guessing when this was first purchased in 1979 it would be around the price of a Kentucky 1500 today or less than a Northfield. Would all this talk be going on if someone played a Kentucky and distressed it to this point?

[FLATROCK HILL]

Would all this talk be going on if someone played a Kentucky and distressed it to this point?

I don't know...but I'll bet Eric might have an idea.

[sblock]

It's interesting to me that some folks clearly are not bothered by even large amounts of wear on mandolins -- the kind of wear that goes well beyond what we see typically see with distressing. But others find it pretty appalling that some tops are reduced to splinters in some places, or even have holes worn clear through them. And that is because this type of damage does not appear abruptly or accidentally, like normal nicks and scratches, which are hard-to-impossible to avoid, and may add to the "character" of an older instrument, just as the patina adds to a bronze statue. Instead, we are discussing a kind of playing damage that grows systematically over time, starting out as a small area of wear in the finish, and eventually going through the finish and into the top wood, as the size of the area grows, too. It's nearly always due to hand/finger/arm rubbing due to playing position, such as posting fingers on the top. Or it's severe buckle rash on the back. But these types of damage are completely preventable. However, preventing them can be VERY hard if it involves completely retraining oneself to play with a different position, for example, not posting the pinky or ring fingers. Some folks won't or can't re-learn that easily, because it's too ingrained (believe me, I know). But this damage is much more easily prevented with a pickguard, armrest, ToneGard (for the back), but some folks don't like these because they also disrupt their preferred playing position a little, particularly the pickguard in the case of folks who post.

Having said all that, there can be little question that that CONDITION plays a significant role in the resale value of a mandolin, and especially so for a high-end one, like a Nugget or Gilchrist or Dudenbostel or Monteleone or (insert your favorite). There are a few people who have written in to say that they don't care about condition, personally -- only sound. But evidently, these folks must be a rather small minority, because the market does not value an instrument with heavy wear (of the type we're discussing) as much as one in excellent condition. Ask any experienced dealer, and he or she will confirm that fact. Condition is a big part of the value of a used instrument, and this is not just true on the collector side of the vintage instrument market. It's true for players as well.

[Tom Wright]

I am surprised by how much this question bothers me, but perhaps it is the feeling that for some people a hole in the top is like ripped jeans, some kind of authenticity badge.

Demurrals because a pickguard would alter playing style are completely off-base because, as I point out, a finish can be protected with a few mil of vinyl. Not even visible from any distance, no effect on playing or sound. Put a patch on the back, one on the binding, and one where you post or rub.

Therefore, there are no arguments against protecting the finish (plenty for saving it) except actually wanting damage. Enjoy.

[Canoedad]

Even those who "don't care about condition" expect to pay less for damaged/distressed instrument, right? I mean, they (I) would not expect to pay the price a relatively pristine instrument would fetch. So in that sense (assuming I'm correct) EVERYONE "cares about condition."

[CES]

I don't think it would cost that much to get it looking good again, I think a $2 tin of dark brown polish should cover most of the worn spots and save ya having to refinish it! That or Old English!

Just joking.........

You're forgetting, though, it's got to be Loar era shoe polish contained within a Loar era container made from an unmentionable material often referenced as the gold standard for pick materials

[DataNick]

Personally, I really like Don's mandolin...not debating the wear vs care issue as I own and personally don't mind "mojo" instruments. Pickguards get in my way (I don't plant) and I use a tonegard for its sonic enhancements, not wear prevention...but again this is just me and we're all different!

In that "Little Maggie" video, it looks very cool (if you're into faux-Gibsons) and it sounds like a kick-butt bluegrass axe!

Wish I could own it!...Carry on...

[pops1]

A few decades ago I had my choice of two teens Gibson mandolins, one very pristine the other with a lot of play wear. They were the same price, but the one with the play wear, lots of play wear, sounded much better. I bought the one that sounded better. A friend of mine is still playing it today.

Since Don bought it this way and there are usually several of these for sale I am guessing he bought it for the sound, not the looks. I am not condoning or advocating for the distressing, just the point about buying for the sound, not the looks is sometimes , for some of us, most important.

[Jim Garber]

Maybe it is time for a "Beat-Up High End Mandolin" Thread. Here's a Zeidler Carrera from the Classifieds sold by Carter Vintage.