Band Practice Etiquette

[LA Mando]

For those of you in a band, what's proper etiquette when introducing a new tune to the group? My standard of practice is to bring sheet music and an audio file if possible to the group, distribute it, and not touch it until folks have had a chance to listen and try it out on their own, unless they really want to try it right then. Then we can see how it sounds as a group after folks have tried it on their own time.

I'm getting irked lately by a band member who brings his own sheet music with no copies for others, announces that he's been working on it for awhile (and this is our first time seeing it), and wants the rest of us to play along, on the spot. Then says we should play this tune in a gig next week. I don't even know the chords, and we haven't even figured out what key to do this in. That means no leads for me, and extra work all week to find the sheet music and figure out chord voicings, not to mention being very uncomfortable on stage.

The others in the band don't seem bothered at all, or at least they don't say anything. So, am I expecting too much? How do your groups handle these matters?

[DHopkins]

Have you told the individual (or the rest of the band, for that matter) how you feel? If no one else has a problem, you're probably stuck with it.

Next time it happens, step up and ask him to bring copies for everyone. IMHO, that individual has an ego problem.

[Jstring]

Yikes...that is pretty rude and thoughtless. In my jazz trio, if someone wants to do a new song, they bring a lead sheet with chords / basic melody. We usually try it on the spot and see how it sounds. We improvise a lot, so there's no point bringing more than a lead sheet, since everyone will go home and develop their own breaks for the song.

I've played with bluegrass groups that kind of expected everyone to "hear" the theee chords and learn the melody by ear... if your band mate comes from that background, it might explain it...

Well, don't suffer in silence...I'd politely to ask him to bring copies for everyone if he wants to try a new tune...

[Mandobart]

Don't get me started....I agreed to play a gig Saturday with a friend's new "band." The breaches of etiquette, professional behavior, courtesy and basic minimum acceptable performance level have gone way beyond this, and remind me why I normally only play solo....

[FLATROCK HILL]

....and we haven't even figured out what key to do this in....So, am I expecting too much? How do your groups handle these matters?

No...you're not expecting too much. Until you (the band) can play the song properly in rehearsal, you can't really expect to do a decent stage performance. At the very least, that would entail knowing in what key you're going to play it.

[Bad Monkey]

Every band is different; I've played with guys that barely rehearsed all the way to guys that had to have it note perfect before they would talk about taking a tune out. Personally I can go with either philosophy as long as I know what key the next tune is in. That being said it sounds like you're the kind of guy that would like to be more familiar with the tune than shoot right from the hip. Nothing wrong with that at all! Part of being in a band is listening to what your bandmates need to be comfortable. To go from "lead sheet and audio file, take it home and listen for next time" to "listen to what I wrote, follow me if you can and we'll add it to the first set tomorrow night" is quite a leap. (and pretty disrespectful if there isn't a "everyone cool?' to go with it...) Sounds like there is at least a precedent of how the band brings in new tunes that is getting stepped on.

[MikeEdgerton]

I had a guy that used to pull songs out of the air during a gig that I'd never heard.

"This one's in Bb, just play along!"

You get real good at figuring things out real fast.

[pops1]

I play in a band that when we play a big gig at an opera house we meet the new members of the band and play thru the song they might bring once during sound check and preform it that night. In blues bands I have been in we jam a lot and hosted an open mic where we played with anyone and backed them up. Spent two years doing gigs as a duo and when we need a band we hired two more people and jammed the night. No one could tell. It all depends on your level of playing as to what you and your band mates are capable of. One guy I play with is a singer song writer and does a lot in F#m, Bm, C#m, Em, Am, you get the idea. He uses a capo, and also plays a baritone guitar so to watch his hands he is a 5th off and you have to transpose. The more you play what you don't know the better you get at it.

[Nate Lee]

Asking for a chart and more time to learn a tune is very reasonable, and any reasonable person should be ok with accommodating that. Does this band have a bandleader, or is it a "democracy" band? In a democracy band there's room for discussion about what is acceptable and what songs should be on the set list. If there's a bandleader and it's not you, all you can do is let them know that this isn't working for you and ask for a change. If they say no, you have to either live with it or quit, because it's their band. The more professional the band is, the more a band member will be expected to write their own charts, or play songs they don't know on the fly.

If this band does have a bandleader and it's not you, Danny Barnes has a great article about etiquette and band dynamics. If you are the bandleader, than maybe it's time to have your sidepeople read Barnes' article. If it's a democracy band the article may still give you some great information to consider.

How To Play In Someone Else's Band (gain 20 years of road experience with a five minute read): http://dannybarnes.com/blog/how-play-someone-elses-band

[Bad Monkey]

How To Play In Someone Else's Band (gain 20 years of road experience with a five minute read): http://dannybarnes.com/blog/how-play-someone-elses-band

That's (%&^ing brilliant. thanks for posting that one.

[DHopkins]

How To Play In Someone Else's Band (gain 20 years of road experience with a five minute read): http://dannybarnes.com/blog/how-play-someone-elses-band

Apparently, written by the boss. Nonetheless, it's good information.

We use to have a really, really, really good bass player. His greatest fault was that he wanted to make sure you knew that. On a nice, slow ballad, he would be all up and down the fingerboard. That lasted about 2 weeks. He's still looking for gigs and we're doing 10-12 a month.

[Jeff Mando]

Good article -- lotsa good advice and truisms. I always told my guys a band is "banded together" for the purpose of making good music. Also, bands are not a democracy -- you must follow a leader if you want to get things done.

There is also an "art" to being a good boss or leader. It requires listening and sometimes a certain amount of diplomacy, especially when having to tell someone to play less or more quietly. That being said, I never told a musician "what" to play -- I hired them because I thought they were talented.

I tried to have rehearsals before touring or gigs, so we would all be on the same page, BUT I am a firm believer in learning things on the fly and just letting it happen -- again, provided the musicians are all of a certain level -- it is more fun to play that way and doesn't sound rehearsed and often you can surprise yourselves with the sum being greater than the individual parts.

[Chanmandolin]

Asking for a chart and more time to learn a tune is very reasonable, and any reasonable person should be ok with accommodating that. Does this band have a bandleader, or is it a "democracy" band? In a democracy band there's room for discussion about what is acceptable and what songs should be on the set list. If there's a bandleader and it's not you, all you can do is let them know that this isn't working for you and ask for a change. If they say no, you have to either live with it or quit, because it's their band. The more professional the band is, the more a band member will be expected to write their own charts, or play songs they don't know on the fly.

If this band does have a bandleader and it's not you, Danny Barnes has a great article about etiquette and band dynamics. If you are the bandleader, than maybe it's time to have your sidepeople read Barnes' article. If it's a democracy band the article may still give you some great information to consider.

How To Play In Someone Else's Band (gain 20 years of road experience with a five minute read): http://dannybarnes.com/blog/how-play-someone-elses-band

Thanks for this post! It's a great read!

[Willie Poole]

Here is what I do now, when I want the band members to listen and learn a new song I send them the song title via an E mail and ask them to Google it and watch a U tube and print out the lyrics, I also let them know what key I sing it in and when we do get together it isn`t all that strange to them....In years past I used to just play a new song and let the members listen to it and then we would decide if we wanted to use it or not, if we all agreed then we would make a recording of it and they could take it home and learn it on their own time...One of the BIG advantages of playing by ear is that you don`t need the sheet music to be presented to each member...IF a member only brings one copy of the sheet music you can use your printer/copier to run off another copy, I don`t see it as a big deal...Most bands always have one person that needs to be the "Boss" or a person to make the final decisions and if any member can`t go along with that he needs to look for another band ....My band members are the greatest guys in the world and never give me any argument and they say they really look up to me for making real good decisions on what to play and what speed etc...We have been together for a long time and comparing that to most bands I find that most of them change members quite often....Give a little, take a little...

Willie

[farmerjones]

Though I do solo gigs, I also play in a band, as a side man. No, I'm not told the key let alone the chord progression. My job is to find that and add to the magic. Yes, in real time on stage. No, we do not rehearse. As a thank you, they want me to come up with a song to lead. I pick something simple. It doesn't help a thing to make the rest look bad. It's so easy to not get called. My job is to do everything in my power, to impress upon them to call me for the next gig. This isn't to show myself off, but to show them off.
Read this again:

How To Play In Someone Else's Band (gain 20 years of road experience with a five minute read): http://dannybarnes.com/blog/how-play-someone-elses-band

The whole time I'm reading this I'm nodding and answering H@ll Yes! This should be laminated!

[bjewell]

Nashville number system. You can't cut that then you need to go...

[Tom C]

When somebody brings a new song in, we just need to know basic chords. Let them play through it. Let us make mistakes... and then ask questions about where chords went or what a specific chord was. If it is a complex tune, then they would just know to bring chords for all.

[bobby bill]

I bring the lion's share of songs to our group and I always provide a lead sheet and chords. It is not so much a matter of courtesy but a means to sounding better in a shorter time.

I am seeing a deeper problem - either a lack of communication or something more sinister. It should be ever band member's goal to sound better as a band. Either you are not communicating your need for more information, he is not listening, or he is working towards a different goal.

[LA Mando]

Thanks, everyone, for the thoughtful replies. I appreciate the link to the Danny Barnes site. Just a few clarifications: this is a democratic band. The group plays an eclectic mix of Celtic, old time, etc. and the tune brought to the group this time was a jazz tune with 2-4 chords per measure, with some really nice stuff going on using the m7b5 and diminished that I'd like to get right. I can wing it on most tunes either by hearing chord changes or watching the guitar player's fingers, but this one goes too fast for that, and it's not my usual genre so it's a stretch for me. The guitar player just skipped most of the chords that had those color notes since we had no sheet music and it was unfamiliar to the group.

It's good to hear how new tunes are brought to your groups. I know that at some point, folks are so talented that they can hear it and just join in. I can do that on a lot of stuff, but not jazz chords and other complicated stuff yet, and the group knew this when they asked me to join them. I'll delicately raise the issue and see where it goes. I'm perfectly okay with walking away if that's what the group wants. I'm just trying to do my job and use our time wisely.

Just an aside--the person who brought the sheet music for himself has violated several of the etiquette rules on the Danny Barnes site, so there may be bigger issues going on about one's ability to perceive the needs of others and social norms. I'm just going to stay focused on trying to get the information I need so I can be prepared and play well. We'll see where this goes, but I think I'm going to delicately raise the issue. Thanks, everyone!

[Mandobart]

I've been in bands and ensemble groups. I've never been the leader of a touring group. What Danny Barnes describes in his attributes of the perfect sideman to me go over the top, beyond band dynamics and more into "how to stop being an a-hole and become a more enlightened human being" (which millions of people in this world should do whether in a band or not). What every employer/leader needs to consider is "Do the talents, creativity, productivity etc. that this individual brings to the team outweigh his faults and not-completely-enlightened status?"

You always have a choice but you can't always find the perfect sideman/bandmate/partner/leader. That's when leadership (and social survival skills) come into play. I'm thinking Mr. Barnes wouldn't survive a deployment on a submarine, even if he were the skipper.

[Jim Hudson]

Band dynamics are quite tricky. Some of the best performance and songwriting occurs when there is "creative tension", no matter what level you're playing at. At the same time, too much tension can eventually cause a band breakup (always breaks my heart a little). From a personal standpoint I think one might tolerate a certain amount of tension, being open to the "juices that flow" within that tension. The tricky part is balancing that tension with overall comfort with performance. Having said that, perhaps some of my best playing is adrenaline fueled, hair on fire improvisation.
I'm with Mandobart on the application of social skills especially if, like me, you prefer to be a "sideman" and not the band leader. The most comfortable bands I've played in have fairly clear "roles" established to help avoid confusion/conflict over the more mundane details, perhaps including lead sheet protocol ...

[Randi Gormley]

To go back to one of the OP's questions, when someone brings a new tune to our (community) band, they bring sheet music and a recording and have enough to give to people who keep forgetting to bring theirs or show up late or skip a session. We'll play the piece as a group until more than half (or, say, most of the competent musicians) can play it without reading it and we'll perform it after that and expect people who can't play it to either use the music or to sit out. One of the advantages of being a community band and beginner session. OTOH, if we're playing a real gig for real money (as opposed to the cultural tent at some random Irish festival), we'll stick to pieces we all know really, really well and not introduce anything new until we're on our last half hour or so.

As with any group, personalities determine whether the experience is a good one or not. Our leader, secondary leader and me -- I'm sort of tied for third -- have a tendency to jolly people along and hope one of the more socially unaware members decides he's too busy to attend. The smaller our group -- we hire out at any size required from soloist to all 35 of us -- the more a successful gig depends on the mix of instruments and the personalities of the players. Most of us have been playing together for more than a decade, so we know each other's strengths and weaknesses and can accommodate. We[re really only at a loss when our socially unaware member -- who happens to be a fine musician but absolutely clueless about playing with a group -- decides the leader(s) aren't focusing the performance the way he wants it to go and attempts to take over.

[Charlieshafer]

Here is what I do now, when I want the band members to listen and learn a new song I send them the song title via an E mail and ask them to Google it and watch a U tube and print out the lyrics, I also let them know what key I sing it in and when we do get together it isn`t all that strange to them..

Willie

We all do exactly the same as Willie. Email is great. If we all don't get the tune suggestion emailed to us a week before, with sheet music if possible, then we don't do it that week. Hard and fast rule. No exceptions, unless we're basically done, and are just goofing around. By then, there's been enough beer that nothing sounds good anyway.

As far as what tunes we do actually end up performing, it's a simple vote. No one holds sway, unless for some reason, there's a special purpose (had an anniversary tune for one member, whose wife was in the audience... no one really liked it, but for that, we do it). I know some bands that if just one person doesn't like it, then it's a no go, but that's a little too restrictive for us. We make sure everyone gets a tune choice in each set. We're not playing Carnegie Hall, so it's not worth one person holding everyone else hostage.

[Mandoplumb]

A band of competent musicians can do a reasonable job on a song " on the fly" but what arrangment? If all you are doing is echoing some recording or seeing this note on paper and playing it, you might as well leave it alone. To make any song "yours" or your bands the arrangement must be worked out in several practice sessions. I don't mean that is has to be so programed as to sound artificial, but it should sound like you have played it before and know the song. In my band this sometimes can be accomplished in a couple of practices and sometime a lot more. One of Don Reno's kids remarked one time that he didn't think his dad played a break the same way twice, and he probably didn't but he never sounded like he just had heard the song for the first time.

[Nevin]

I think each situation is somewhat unique. While in some situations it may be expected to be able to play at performance levels on the fly these tend to be situations with full time musicians playing genres where chord progressions and structures follow predictable patters or where there are standards you should know.

Even then if the leader gets sheet music or a lead sheet, I think having one for everyone just ups the chances that things will work out. My practice when working as a sideman (most of the time) or as a leader (a few times) has been to do everything I can to make things go as well as possible.

A few thoughts on the article that was posted. I agree with much that it says but not all. It assumes an ideal band leader. I have yet to play with one or be one. So reminding them of some necessary thing like plane tickets may not be a bad idea. The idea that the leader is paying you all he can afford to and you shouldn't negotiate is laughable.