Newbie with small hands, yes I'm a girl.

[Shasta59]

HI Everyone,
Learning to play the mandolin has been on my bucket list and I finally have some time to pursue this challenge. I keep reading about the Kentucky 150 being a good beginners mandolin, but am concerned what I will be able to "handle" as I found guitar playing hard because of the needed stretch of my fingers to reach the frets etc. any advise would be very much appreciated, thanks very much!

[multidon]

Welcome to the Cafe Shasta. I will give it a try.

The stretches in mandolin playing are more or less just as hard with mandolin as they are with guitar. The guitar has a longer scale length than mandolin, but is tuned in 4ths (and one 3rd), meaning the notes are closer than the mandolin, which has a shorter scale length but further away notes (5ths). So it's a wash. The mandolin chord shapes can be challenging. Check out a 4 finger G chop chord. Quite a reach there!

That being said, don't be discouraged. There are things that can help. Some of the things that help someone with small hands include nut width, neck profile, and scale length. Go for a narrow nut (1 1/8 or even 1 1/16 inch) and a slim neck with a V profile. There isn't a lot of variability in scale length but some have 13 7/8 inch instead of a full 14. Even that little difference puts the frets a bit closer. There is such a thing as a 13 inch scale, which would be much easier for you. But those are usually found on bowlbacks meant for classical music. If you can find a nice one, Martin flatbacks have a 13 inch scale. But those are no longer made and you have to buy used. One mandolin maker I know of, Thomas Flood, used to make the occasional 13 inch instrument, but he no longer makes. If you contacted a custom luthier, you might be able to get a 13 inch instrument made, but it would perhaps be more than you want to spend. You also have to consider what kind of music you want to play. A 13 inch scale bowlback would be useless if you aspire to bluegrass, for example. If you can't get a 13 inch scale then choose an instrument that has the shortest scale you can find. And of course, if you get the opportunity, try before you buy.

Best of luck!

[LadysSolo]

I also have small hands and short fingers. I have never played a Kentucky, so I can't speak to that, my first mandolin was a Loar LM 220, which was easy for me to reach. I also have a couple bowlbacks (even easier) and a Pava Player and a Weber, all pretty easy to reach. BTW, a parlor guitar is easier for small hands (and correspondingly short arms) than a standard guitar.

[Shasta59]

Wow Don, thanks for the advice, I will look for those features. I'm very green to all the details that I see listed online, but this will help when shopping. There really aren't any good shops close to me, so will be making my purchase online, but from one of the places listed on the website.
Joanne

[Jim Parriott]

I'm relatively new to the mandolin, too, coming from guitar and banjo. A great tip I got from this board was to approach the neck with a hand position similar to playing the violin. This will help your stretch greatly. We guitar players tend to have a more flat on vertical approach to the strings. That works well up neck on a mando, but not down neck where you need the reach.

[Shasta59]

Which Weber do you have? I don't want to go over $400, incase I find it way... too difficult to learn..

[Shasta59]

Which Weber do you have? My budget is really $400 or less, in case, I'm a total clutz and have a tough time learning.

[multidon]

Shasta, if you buy an instrument expecting to fail it will be a self fulfilling prophecy. I have seen way too many beginners go cheap on their instrument purchase so that they are not out that much, "just in case". You need to have a very positive attitude right from the very start. An inferior instrument will almost guarantee failure as it will be difficult to play and sound bad. Who wants that? A much wiser outlook is to buy a quality instrument from a reputable dealer who will make sure it is set up correctly. Now, I don't mean spend thousands of dollars. But it is easy to spend 400 dollars on junk and just as easy to spend the same money on something nicer. Get something that has respect from other mandolinists and it will be easier to sell in the future on the Cafe Classifieds if you so choose. The three leaders in entry level brands are Eastman, Kentucky, and The Loar.

I would encourage you to up your budget to 500 dollars. That gives you more flexibility. In your price range you have Kentucky 150 (sunburst), and 156 (same thing in solid brown), 250 (upgraded wood and hardware, sunburst), 252 (same thing in amber natural), and 256 (same thing in brown) and the 270 (oval hole). You also get The Loar 220 and the Eastman 304 (oval hole) and 305 (F holes).

I would further encourage you to purchase from a Cafe sponsor, such as Elderly Instruments, The Mandolin Store, and Folkmusician.com. If you call Elderly ask to talk to someone who knows mandolins. If you call The Mandolin Store ask to talk to Dennis. If you call Folkmusician.com ask to talk to Robert. Tell whoever you talk to honestly about your concerns with the small hands and ask what they recommend. I can highly recommend all three; I have done business with the first two, and although I have never had the pleasure of doing business with Robert he is a frequent contributor here and all around good dude. NFI. Pick any of the above, you can't go wrong. Elderly puts together a nice little beginners kit with the KM 150, case, and some accessories. TMS and Folkmusician will both include a case or gig bag, you will have to add the other stuff (picks, tuner, strap, book, etc) ala carte.

Hope all this helps.

[pops1]

There are many alternate chord patterns that don't involve any stretching and can even be used for bluegrass if that is what you want to play. I don't play the big stretch bluegrass chords even tho I can, I prefer a different fingering and mostly use double stops for what I do. You should have no problem if you put in some practice time and want to do it. I do agree that the better the instrument is set up the easier it will be to learn, doesn't mean spending a lot for an instrument, but it does need to be set up so it plays easy and in tune. If you buy used and really have a hard time you should get most of your investment back, but hey it's on your bucket list learn to play and have fun.

[dhergert]

For the most part, there aren't a lot of totally bad mandolins. There are a lot of mandolins that are setup very poorly though, and a poorly setup mandolin can by itself discourage a player enough to give it up.

I'd highly recommend contacting a vendor who packages a complete quality setup with whatever mandolin you buy from them. There probably will be a slightly higher cost than buying a mandolin that is not setup, but that cost will probably guarantee your enjoyable mandolin playing experience.

The vendors already mentioned here all can provide a variety of mandolins with such a setup for you. And they can also provide good recommendations related to the brand and model to purchase. You can get a relatively nice sounding mandolin in your price range; even if the setup cost exceeds your total money goal, it is very worth while to get the setup done.

Very best of luck with your search!

[Woodrow Wilson]

Is it the stretching that bothers you, or putting adequate pressure down? I presume a mix of both. Getting a mandolin with a good setup and the strings as low as practical at the nut would help, as would lighter gauged strings. Fret wire with a tall crown wouldn't hurt for ease of making good contact with the string (no clue if any one brand is better than another in regards to that variable, but maybe someone else does). You shouldn't really have to pinch the string down to the wood super hard on a fretted instrument in order to get a solid note, and that slight relaxation of pressure may make all the difference in stretching down the fret board.

[Kalasinar]

I'm female with small hands, short fingers, and i've been playing for just under a year now with little to no prior experience with fretted/stringed instruments (except a little bass guitar). I admit there has been many a time where i have felt that some stretches across the frets are just impossible, or that it has been very hard to press a string down on a certain fret etc etc. But i honestly never let that discourage me, in fact it made me practice all the more. My reasoning? There's some really talented kids playing mandolin, and they surely have smaller hands than me! I am an experienced musician and i also know that it takes time to develop strength, muscle memory and agility where certain instruments are concerned, so i knew if i dedicated myself i would pull through. You just need the willpower and time to do so.

I will also second the importance of holding the mandolin correctly. The fretting hand should assume a violinist stance otherwise you are going to experience discomfort and frustration (i had to correct my hand positioning along the ways). As a beginner i was also guilty of 'gorilla grip' but once you are aware of it you can take steps to correct that as well. There are loads of videos on youtube to help you ensure you are holding the mandolin correctly. Of course a proper set up with low action and light strings is also key - make it easy on yourself while you learn the instrument. You can obtain mandolins with narrower necks (like an Eastman) but personally i didn't know this when i started and did fine with what i got.

Overall, despite small hands, you will be able to play so long as you have a good setup and have the time to practice. Building strength in the muscles of your hands/fingers is what is most important, and you'll only develop that if you practice regularly. I remember in particular finding the left pinky stretch to the seventh fret so difficult to achieve in my early days, and its hardly surprising because my pinky finger was weak and not used to such demands. Now i look back and smile, after so much practice, it is now so easy. Just have faith in yourself, and don't give up if things seem hard at first. Practice, practice, practice.

[Bertram Henze]

Small hands are an excuse for nothing* , and nothing will serve as an excuse for not playing the mandolin.
A small willpower, on the other hand, will make look anything too big.

(*) tell them their hands are too small

[Bill McCall]

Learning to play is really a learning process, i.e., you won't have the physical skill at the start you will a year from now. Be patient and thoughtful in identifying the problem areas and work at them slowly. For my small, fat hand, I play closed scales starting at the 10th fret and move down toward the nut, so I warm up where the stretch is the smallest. Keep your fingers down and after a bit of time you will see improvement.

Playing the G chop chord, the hardest reach, will come in time. Start with 2 finger chords, then move to 3 fingers.

And as Sierra Hull noted, even though she can play it now, she rarely plays more than the 2 bass notes.

[Northwest Steve]

First the mandolin question. I have owned both a Kentucky 150 and an Eastman 305. The 150 to my ears was louder, drier, had a better chop. Seemed to lead towards a traditional bluegrass sound. The Eastman was sweeter and you could play softer and still sound great, I think it would lean towards a more modern sound and be very versatile. For you I would recommend looking at the Eastman 305 or 505. The 150 had a flat fretboard, 1 1/8" nut and a chunkier neck. The 305 had a smaller neck (1 1/32") and a radius fretboard and I thought it was very comfortable. I have smaller hands for a man for what it is worth.

As far as playing if the number in you name has anything to do with when you were born then we are starting at a similar stage. I had never played an instrument before. My daughter was taking fiddle lessons and plays in the orchestra at school so I decided to give it a try. It has been SLOW GOING to say the least. I have had a hard time finding a good instructor that is a good match and I have had a few start and stop's along the way. The first thing I would recommend is learning to play chords. You do not have to be very good just able to switch a few basic chords and play on the off beat (2 and 4). If you go to a jam and there is a bass player just play the opposite chords as them. Also watch the guitar players they boom (on beat 1 and 3) chuck (off beat 2 and 4). You can also watch the guitar player and get the copy the chords and when to change. I can not believe how many people I have talked to that have been playing for a few to several years and don't play chords and don't have the confidence to play in a jam. GET OUT AN PLAY WITH OTHERS. The jams I have attended the players have been very welcoming and accepting. It takes playing pretty much every day. If you keep at it you will see a break through every now an then. I also would suggest trying to learn 3 finger chords instead of 2 finger. Nothing wrong with 2 finger but 3 finger chords are not much harder and you keep the same shape and jus move up and down the fretboard. Here are a couple of links to some three finger videos and mandolessons.com is a great resource.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVAWslpac5I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4WFe4DwCcU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GUSVLMT_f0

[LadysSolo]

I have a Weber Bitterroot mandolin. They are not inexpensive, neither is the Pava. As I mentioned, I started with the Loar LM 220 (but I have never played a Kentucky or Eastman, and others seem to like those) and then decided I wanted a mid-level instrument since I was so thrilled to be able to play the mandolin easier than the guitar. I couldn't decide which so I got both, and am not sorry. And what many posters have said about practice is VERY important. I pick a piece I want to learn and then just work out what I need to do to make it happen. I am 61 years old and just started playing mandolin about 18 months ago - I am not "good" but I am "okay," and plan to get "good" (or at least "better") when I retire in a few years and have some time.

[Br1ck]

I think those with large hands find some things easier, and some not. Conversely those with small hands find some things easier, and some not.

I thought when I got a mandolin I had found an instrument that would benefit from small hands, then found out about the G chop chord. I think it's a wash. No excuses allowed.

[Mandoplumb]

Shasta don't start your mandolin playing with a negative. I haven't seen your hands but I can tell you if you have 10 fingers your hands are not too small. I learned a little on mandolin first then moved to guitar. All this was many years ago while a teenager. My dad played about any string instrument and he was the one showing me guitar chords. When he tried to get me to play what I call a long A I told him I couldn't stretch 4frets from the bar to place my pinkie, he wouldn't take no way for a reason so I had to. After playing a few years I could make that stretch with my second finger. Practice will allow you to make any chord anyone else can make, even a four note bluegrass G chop chord, just remember "I can't" never accomplished anything. I've said it before, before you give up and say I can't, look at Barry Abernathy, played banjo for Quick Silver one of the top bluegrass bands and he has only a partial noting hand

[Shasta59]

It's the stretch that worries me, I tried playing guitar in my teen age years and found it really awkward trying to make the cords So am thinking a mandolin, if there is a mandolin with a narrower neck, it would help my learning process, and maybe reduce some frustration.This sounds good in theory,to me.....

[multidon]

Of course it all depends on what kind of music you are going to play. Genre and style. You seem to be very focused on chords. If you are looking for an instrument to strum chords to accompany singing, mandolin is a poor choice. Ukulele would be much more suitable for that, and the ultimate small hand instrument to boot. Some chords on mandolin are simple, some are harder, but when I play mandolin I almost always am playing melody lines, so chord difficulties seldom come into play for me. So, if what you want to do is melodies also, you needn't worry about difficult chords. Or you could stick to the easier versions. No shame in that, as noted above.

I believe the Eastman 305 might be a great choice for you. Slimmer neck and narrower nut than most. Good solid mandolin for under 500 dollars. Good enough quality that it could very well be all the mandolin you ever need. They also turn up used in our classifieds from time to time.

[allenhopkins]

This is not going to be a really direct response, but if I felt I needed a shorter scale (frets closer together). easy to fret neck, I'd go looking for a good-condition, used Martin Style A mandolin. You would pay closer to $800 than $400, but if the instrument didn't work out, you could almost certainly get nearly all your money back on re-sale.

I have a 1918 Style A, and it's probably my most comfortable mandolin to play. The neck, while a bit "deep" by some post-truss-rod standards, is really easy to get around on, the scale is a bit shorter (more like a bowl-back's), and the sound is sweet -- not bluegrass, by any means, but clear and with excellent volume.

Of the newer instruments, I think that Eastman A-styles probably have a slightly more Donald-friendly* neck, so I second the recommendations above.

* I believe he has very small hands, allegedly; some people say that... (jus' kiddin'!)

[Elizabeth Fox]

I'm a girl with very short fingers, and the Eastman 305 worked very well for me as starter mandolin. Yes, there are some chords that are hard reaches for me on any mandolin, but I have figured out ways to make it work in general. I say go for it and give it a try! Just be patient and persistent.

[Jim]

I have a 1918 Style A, and it's probably my most comfortable mandolin to play. The neck, while a bit "deep" by some post-truss-rod standards, is really easy to get around on, the scale is a bit shorter (more like a bowl-back's), and the sound is sweet -- not bluegrass, by any means, but clear and with excellent volume.

I have small hands for a guy and find the shorter scale of my Strad-o-lin a bit easier to get around on. Got mine for under $200 and do my own setup. I suggest buying used, A-style and shopping around so you know how different neck profiles and scale length feel. I won't say you should not spend more than your $400 budget, but I have owned several great sounding mandolins that I bought used for less then half that. Keep looking and look for the help of people who play and know about setup.

[mandroid]

FWIW(+1) in addition to the popular Gibson mandolin scale 13 7/8"
there is a Violin scale used by some mandolin builders right @ 13 ".

I have a Pocket mandolin, I got for travel that is like that.. .

[Randi Gormley]

Interesting. When Shasta said she was worried about stretch, I figured she meant width of the fretboard, not length ... and a mandolin is definitely thinner across the fretboard than a guitar (which I also had problems with as a teen -- one reason I picked up the flute). OTOH, the distance between the first fret and the second is also shorter on mandolin than on a guitar, so moving from one fret to another in first position is easier as well. so I would say that she'd find mandolin easier on her hands to play than a guitar just from a physical standpoint. Chords, now -- well, there are other ways to play the mandolin than to rely on chords. I've certainly said this before -- I've been playing mandolin for something like 15 or more years and play out for -- what is it, tens of dollars? -- and I only know 4 chords and don't play them. If I must, I'll play a double stop. I also don't play bluegrass or jazz. It all comes down to what you want to play.

My suggestion would be to get a mandolin and get it professionally set up (even a Rogue will work if it's well set up) and start slowly and small -- single note melody, two-finger chords (if chords are wanted) and, when her hands are more accustomed to the pressure, gradually increase the fingers on chords. And although it's been mentioned, she can always learn on a bowlback and move to a different instrument when she's more confident of herself. The fingering is identical, after all.