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Thread: Origin of "Big Mon"

  1. #1

    Default Origin of "Big Mon"

    Hi folks, long time forum-lurker but first-time poster, I have a question about the origins of the tune "Big Mon". I'm a pretty hardcore Monroe fan so I'm aiming this at the community of Monroe illuminati in this forum!

    The way I've heard it told, Bobby Hicks and Gordon Terry (or was it Charlie Cline?) were the fiddlers in the Blue Grass Boys when Bill was playing at a square dance in South Dakota sometime in the late fifties. The pair of them essentially improvised the tune on stage and gradually the band worked it up into an instrumental which they recorded in around 1958/9 (with Bill playing an F4 mandolin). The title came from Bobby Hicks' nickname for Monroe at the time.

    I'm a mandolin player from London, UK and I'm shortly going to be participating in an online project related to Monroe-style mandolin, a part of which will be the story and history behind particular tunes and songs or Monroe's interpretation of them. Having browsed these forums for a while I know there are a load of folks who have an incredible amount of knowledge of Mr. Monroe and his music, often from first-hand experiences with the man himself so I'm opening it out to you guys to see if there are any little-known details or misconceptions I should be aware of before I commit anything to paper (so to speak). Thanks so much for any responses!

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  3. #2
    Loarcutus of MandoBorg DataNick's Avatar
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    Default Re: Origin of "Big Mon"

    Check out the Facebook group, The Monroe Mandolin Appreciation Society. That's where a lot of Monroe heads and people who knew him personally hang out. It's administrated by Chris Henry.

    Good luck!
    1994 Gibson F5L - Weber signed


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  5. #3

    Default Re: Origin of "Big Mon"

    Already a member, love that group, good idea!

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    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Origin of "Big Mon"

    The sleeve note on the LP ''Bluegrass Instrumentals'' reads as follows :- "Big Mon (Pronounced as though it were spelled Mun) is one of the many nicknames which Bill had aquired,& it was bestowed by Bobby Hicks & Charlie Cline who were both working with Bill out in the Northwest in either Nebraska, or in one of the Dakotas, when this tune developed as a result of improvising between the members of the group while playing at a dance one night''

    It was recorded December 1st 1958 - Bobby Hicks - Fiddle / Robert Lee Pennington - Banjo / Guitar - Jack Cooke / Bass - Bessie Lee Mauldin. It doesn't say who played mandolin ?

    I've always loved this tune. I loved playing it on banjo & it's now one of my favourite tunes to play on mandolin,
    Ivan
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  9. #5

    Default Re: Origin of "Big Mon"

    Yep, that must be where I got the story from! I think the liner notes of the Bear Family box set are similar but whether they just recycled the Bluegrass Instrumentals story rather than getting confirmation from somewhere else I don't know

  10. #6
    Registered User Timbofood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Origin of "Big Mon"

    It's fun to play, so is "Wheel Hoss"! Have not been playing too much lately, gig tomorrow night so, I should be changing strings but, I'm not, I'm fooling around here!
    Timothy F. Lewis
    "If brains was lard, that boy couldn't grease a very big skillet" J.D. Clampett

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  12. #7
    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Origin of "Big Mon"

    JF - After all this time,i'd suppose that the Bear Family boxed set simply re-cycled the original story.

    As an aside - i ordered the LP via my ''go to'' music store in Manchester UK, & i also ordered several LP's for the guys in my (our) band. I doled out the LP's when they arrived & i think i'd only had chance to play one side of 'Bluegrass Instrumentals' when i got a phone call from our mandolin player,who also happened to be a very good banjo player - indeed,the first Bluegrass banjo player i ever saw when i was still learning. ''Have you heard 'Sailor's Hornpipe' ?'' he asked me. I hadn't ,but he was so enthusiastic about it that i went & had a listen to it &, as when i first heard Scruggs style banjo back in 1963,i didn't understand what was going on. I couldn't understand how a banjo could be played llike that with the fingers. I was still puzzled when,a few years later,i'd met & become friends with Bill Clifton who was living over here at the time. I asked Bill about it & he assured me that it was 'finger style' & i was even more puzzled - HOW ??.

    It was a few years later still that i heard of ''Chromatic style'' banjo playing - that's what they were calling it when i first heard of it.
    I then heard it called 'Keith style' after Bill Keith. I also heard that other banjo players had been playing in a similar style around that time - Bobby Thompson & Eric Weissberg spring to mind.

    Some years later,after buying Peter Wernick's banjo tutor which had the TAB for 'Sailor's Hornpipe' in it,i sat down & learned how to play it which took me a couple of weeks. the fingering was all ''upside down, backwards,across'' compared to Scruggs style,but i got it done. However,having nowhere to play it,it soon got sidelined as i went on to yet another banjo tune ad nauseam !.

    I've taken great care in my mandolin playing NOT to get bogged down with instrumentals only.These days i much prefer to practice my back-up playing & developing my own 'breaks'' in tunes / songs,
    Ivan
    Weber F-5 'Fern'.
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  13. #8
    Registered User Timbofood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Origin of "Big Mon"

    I think that is the best album ever complied! It was the first one I owned, it was a gift from my guitar playing buddy at age sixteen! It's still the one I turn to when I really need a Monroe "fix"! Sometimes, you need the real deal! This is one everyone that appreciates BG music should own two copies of!
    Timothy F. Lewis
    "If brains was lard, that boy couldn't grease a very big skillet" J.D. Clampett

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    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Origin of "Big Mon"

    Hi Tim - It's such a shame that the Bear Family record Co. didn't see fit to put the LP 'as it was' onto CD as a separate item. Instead,they've spread the tunes out over the CD's covering the years in which they were recorded - fair enough - BUT. IMHO,more folk would have bought the single (or double) CD on its own, than the boxed sets covering the time span of the recordings. I think that Bear Family lost a few $/£ on that one. If i could find a reputable LP to CD transfer Co.,i'd have a copy made,but the LP is so precious i'd have to be there watching them do it - trust no one !,
    Ivan

    PS - Here's a few for sale :- https://www.discogs.com/sell/release/2524370?ev=rb
    The 3 copies on offer in the UK are classed as 'near mint' & could be worth considering at the prices listed.
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  17. #10
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    Default Re: Origin of "Big Mon"

    Ivan, I bought a Crosley radio/ cassette/CD/LP player/recorder and it allows a person to record from any one of the formats to another one...My hope is that soon I will be able to burn all of my LP`s onto CD`s...The unit only cost around $299, I have burned a lot of my wife`s old 45`s from the 50`s and `60`s onto CD` for her....The one draw back it they have to be done at normal speed and that takes quite a bit of time...If only it had the function to record at faster speed it would be ideal...They might have something like that in the UK if you have a chance to hunt for it, I bought mine at a Target store here in the U.S...

    You have a great idea doing this to keep all of the LP`s pristine and listen to the CD`s most of the time...I have some real good stuff on LP`s like most of the Country Gents, Cliff Waldron, Jimmy Martin, The Osborne Bros,,, Just to name a few....I also have a lot on good blugrass on reel to reel tapes and I can record those onto cassette tapes and from there put them onto CD`s, as I said it is a slow process....I am not much on instrumentals from Monroe but do have a few on some of his albums..."Big Mon" just doesn`t thrill me but that is just my taste compared to what others like...THere aren`t many fiddle tunes that I like to play anyway....

    Good luck with the project....

    Willie

  18. #11
    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Origin of "Big Mon"

    Hi Willie - Personally,i prefer to play the original LP's. CD's are certainly useful & convenient,but i have close to 2,000 LP's & i'm not about to attempt to put them onto CD.Fortunately,some of my favourite LP's were put onto CD & i've bought several of them,but i have a shed load of LP's that will never make it onto CD. All the Starday Bluegrass 'compilation' LP's to begin with.I've no doubt that there will be some of the original LP's knocking about,but not that many maybe.
    Have a look at this page,not all Bluegrass,but i'd bet that most of this music has vanished as far as being easily available. I have the originals of both these 2 LPs & there's some great music on them. It's interesting to note just 'what' Starday were labelling as ''Bluegrass'' back then - Grandpa Jones ??,
    http://www.bsnpubs.com/starday/starday100.html
    Ivan
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    Weber F-5 'Fern'.
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    Stelling Bellflower BANJO
    Tokai - 'Tele-alike'.
    Ellis DeLuxe "A" style.

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    Default Re: Origin of "Big Mon"

    Ivan, I guess that there is a lot more songs than a person would want to take time to burn onto CD`s, what I try to do is just copy the songs that I like and enjoy listening to....

    Willie

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    Registered User Timbofood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Origin of "Big Mon"

    Well boys, I don't have an analog turntable in my car and I do not see that as ever being a "reasonable" accessory in any vehicle I might own.
    I agree, there is something about the "tonal colour" which is (arguably) "better" in the vinyl. If I could, carry analog recordings in the car or as many places as I find myself wanting to listen to music, I would.
    The headache begins when you want to "take it with you" then, to transfer the the LP's to more transportable media is that transfer must be done in "real time" so, you need to spend an afternoon just enjoying listening to the LP while burning it to a CD format.
    The difference in the "compression" from one to the other to some is astronomical. My ear, through too many years of abuse of playing, shooting, and years of other damage has become far less "polished" so, burning a CDfor preservation of the vinyl for someone else to enjoy (if anyone after my days cares) is, simply, stewardship. Saving a better copy for future enjoyment.
    All three of the LP's in this conversation are ones I'd likely want the whole version of BTW.
    Timothy F. Lewis
    "If brains was lard, that boy couldn't grease a very big skillet" J.D. Clampett

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  22. #14
    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Origin of "Big Mon"

    Hi Tim / Willie - IMHO,vinyl still sounds 'better' to my ears than CD. LP's have a 'depth' of sound that makes them more appealing. On a CD all the music is there,but they can sound a bit 'flat' & hard toned. I once demo'd a CD v LP version of a Fleetwood Mac recording to a friend of mine years before i had a CD player. With the CD,as i said,all the music was there,but switching over to LP track,the whole band was there.There seems to be a 'front to back' depth with LPs that CDs just don't have. However, some of the old Starday LP tracks were old to begin with & recorded in glorious 'mono'. 'Stereo' was years away when many of them were recorded. The track 'Run Mountain' by J.E.Mainer's Mountaineers on the 'Bluegrass Hall of Fame'' LP sounds as though it was recorded by ''singing into a can'' as per 'O' Brother' (an awesome bit of the film).

    I bought a CD player with the cash i had left over from my trip to the USA back in 1992. Having done some shopping for Bluegrass recordings while i was in the US,i found that it was either CD or Cassette - LP's had gone !. I bought some tapes,but realised the i'd have to buy a CD player some time if i wanted to buy new recordings. The beauty of CD's is the way thay can be used. Play the whole CD / select the tracks you want only / repeat any track(s) if you're learning a tune. Doing that with LP's the way i used to, was a tad tiresome to say the least,but you had to do it,
    Ivan
    Weber F-5 'Fern'.
    Lebeda F-5 "Special".
    Stelling Bellflower BANJO
    Tokai - 'Tele-alike'.
    Ellis DeLuxe "A" style.

  23. #15
    Registered User Timbofood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Origin of "Big Mon"

    I understand your point exactly! They sound "pinched" but, have become the norm. And they do travel fairly well. As for making the conversion copies, yep, you have to do it in real time but, a nice glass of something and a little time, why not? Then enjoy the vinyl when your at home.
    Timothy F. Lewis
    "If brains was lard, that boy couldn't grease a very big skillet" J.D. Clampett

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