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Thread: How do I become a luthier?

  1. #26
    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
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    Default Re: How do I become a luthier?

    Quote Originally Posted by F-2 Dave View Post
    I'm sure it's a pretty simple process. What religion are you converting from?
    Yeah, I was raised in the Luthieran Church ...
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  2. #27
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    Default Re: How do I become a luthier?

    There's a guitarmaking workshop in Seattle that I haven't been thru but one of the teachers is a really top notch repair and rebuild person: http://www.soundguitarworkshop.com/. That's a pretty arduous drive from Hood River until you get back on the 5, if I remember correctly.

    I've also met a few grads of the school in Salt Lake City who speak highly of the program: http://www.vmsa.net/about-the-school/. They did mention that Salt Lake's altitude (about 4200 feet) affects how varnishes, lacquers etc cure.
    Kentucky km900
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    a pedal steel (highly recommended); banjo, dobro don't get played much cause i'm considerate ;}

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  3. #28

    Default Re: How do I become a luthier?

    1. Do something else to make money
    2. Spend all your savings and disposable income on tools and wood
    2. Spend ten years developing your skills and processes so your instruments are marketable
    3. Lose a little money on each one you sell, and make it up in volume </irony>

    That's been my business plan, anyway. Your mileage may vary.

    One thing that makes lutherie a bad choice as a career is that the intellectual property and processes you develop will have essentially no value. In any other business, if you tool up a production line or develop a new way of building things, that is a potential revenue stream (or retirement plan, even). Since luthiers in general do not have money, and lutherie as a business is not very profitable, the time you spend is solely for yourself, and it is only worth what you can make through sale of units.
    On the plus side of lutherie as a business, you almost never have to talk to lawyers (unless you run into a nice one at a jam).

    I know guys and gals who have done essentially the same thing I did, but in medical devices. They are millionaires, or on the short path to getting there.
    So basically, your reason for building instruments shouldn't be financial, or you will most likely be disappointed.
    Even Bob Taylor, Bill Collings and the like have had some pretty lean times as they developed their companies. And if you take that road, you end up being a businessman, not a luthier. Which could be great if that's where your strengths lie.

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  5. #29
    Registered User sunburst's Avatar
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    Default Re: How do I become a luthier?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Jacobson View Post
    On the plus side of lutherie as a business, you almost never have to talk to lawyers (unless you run into a nice one at a jam).
    Actually, I can think of two very good customers (and very nice guys) who are lawyers. Fact is, lawyers are more likely to be able to buy custom instruments than musicians are.

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    Default Re: How do I become a luthier?

    John, some of my best customers are lawyers and doctors. There was no dickering about price and they ordered really nice instruments. Now I'm hoping they'll be back for something else, like a guitar.

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  9. #31
    Ursus Mandolinus Fretbear's Avatar
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    Default Re: How do I become a luthier?

    Thinking about making money at it (before your skill commands it) is like getting into music recording (now) to make money from all the recordings you are going to sell (you aren't)
    Get a Stewmac mandolin kit and challenge yourself to build a world class mandolin. Some folks (who build professionally) will say that is impossible and that you have to build lots of dreck before you score. It is not true. I have a custom mandolin that I could never have afforded to buy that I worked on 8 hours a day for well over a month that I would never trade for anything that could be offered. Some folks also say "start by repairing". Why would I trust you with my precious instrument (if I couldn't repair it myself) if I have no evidence of your skill or experience and am just going to pay you to let you learn on mine?
    Your desire is laudable, but you just have to start by making some sawdust.
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  10. #32

    Default Re: How do I become a luthier?

    If you want to be an independent luthier, the number one thing is business and marketing. Not to take away from the skill needed to build, but building great instruments means nothing if you can not move what you make at a profit.

    A poor to average luthier with good business skills can make a living, where a great luthier with poor business skills probably won't. Of course the ideal situation is to be a good business person and a great luthier.

    Among the most profitable things I have done is getting into repair. If done right, there is fair money in it. You are not going to get rich, but a well run repair business can make a good fair wage that is inline with other trades. I also highly recommend diversifying to some extent. Making a living strictly making mandolins will be difficult. Throwing in repairs, making other types of instruments, and having a separate business doing some loosely related thing like high-end furniture, makes it a much safer venture. These types of fields have major ups and downs. Having something else that takes up the slack will save you. You don't realize how seasonal this sort of thing is, and how it cycles over the years, until you are into it for a while and start to see the patterns.

    Ski shops here, rent bikes and kayaks in the summer. One that comes to mind sold patio furniture in the summer.


    As for learning to build. I would get to it right now. Building a whole instrument from scratch seems daunting, but concentrating on getting good at a single step is not that hard. Start with something like slotted fingerboards. Perfect it, then sell them to other builders. Move on to the other parts. Once you can produce every part, sell kits. Now that this is up and running, you have the basic foundation, and some income from the parts business. Move on to refined parts. Now offer the kit with a graduated top and back. Keep improving workflows.

    The important thing here is that you are producing a good product and making some income while you learn each new stage. If you set off to turnout world class instruments as your first product, you will have no income for an awful long time.
    Robert Fear
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  11. #33
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    Default Re: How do I become a luthier?

    I started by buying cheap instruments and repairing them, then selling them affordable, but playable. I had reset a Martin neck and a dowel stick banjo neck before going to Red Wing for the building class. Still have the banjo, an 1890 Washburn and it still plays well 20+ years later. Starting on beater instruments for repair is a way to learn without damaging anyone's precious instrument. If you goof up you are not out much, or build what you damaged and make it work with the new part. It's all part of the repair/building process. See if it is something you really like to do.
    THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!

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    Default Re: How do I become a luthier?

    You could start by getting ahold of good instructional material, supplementing this with viewing every "how to" video on Youtube of making Ukes, guitars, and mandolins,----contact makers and offer to volunteer in their shop, "learn by doing" and start making some sawdust.

  13. #35

    Default Re: How do I become a luthier?

    You know I've written about this topic many times, in posts here, on my blogs and in my ebooks. But it comes down to this - except for a small number of makers, making is now very much a buyers market. There is more choice, perhaps too much choice. In the guitar world (and now it's starting to happen in the mandolin world) it's becoming a competition between makers as to who can do the most work for the least amount of money in an attempt to emulate the success of those seen to be doing well. I was warned about this right at the start of my "solo" career - to try to avoid becoming a "busy fool." I thought that was pretty harsh at the time, but it's easy to do if you're lost in "wanting" attention. Your work is only worth what someone will pay, and with many many people doing something similar, often with more advanced skills.

    Supply and demand - the market dictates your hourly rate, not what you think it's worth. You can end up working for less than minimum wage. And these days, without a concerted marketing effort, your chances of making a living a very slim. I spend a third of my time on marketing and that's after 28 years of making.

    Repair on the other hand, is very much a sellers market. People will even keep going back to repairers who aren't very good, simply because they often don't have much option, and folk tend to be loyal (a chap I know wrote his degree dissertation about this very subject) Again supply and demand your price, and in this case, you the repairer gets to tell the customer what you'd like for every hour you work for them. And the rate (in the UK at least) is just as good as that for a plumber, electrician and better than a carpenter. The marketing commitment can be incredibly low if you do it wisely.

    Either way, you're a luthier.

    Nigel
    http://www.theluthierblog.com/

  14. #36
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    Default Re: How do I become a luthier?

    This is going to sound flippant and forgive me if it is:

    1. Build stuff.....use books, friends, courses whatever helps you to study and build on your craft.
    2. Take apart stuff and study it.....there are plenty of junky instruments floating around you can trash. Best way ever to figure out how to reset necks... fix cracks, etc. You can also find halfway decent instruments that need work so you can practice graduating tops and backs if Mando is your passion.
    3. Find someone local who is also into instrument building and pick their brains... show them your work, check out their work.
    4. Build more stuff.....
    5. Don't quit your day job for a LONG time....

    That's essentially what I did. Now I'm up to my neck in commissions and repairs. (Guitars, basses .... graduating to Mandos now) .

    A great tactic (IMO) to making the jump to building for others is to offer a few instruments to friends for the cost of materials (and a 6 er of decent beer) with the proviso that they live with the results. Amazing how much you step up your game when you have the pressure of making an instrument that will please someone else.

    Hope this is helpful

    Karl

    P.s...... I also donate instruments to various fundraising causes..... great way to get your name out there to potential customers.

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  16. #37

    Default Re: How do I become a luthier?

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl Hoyt View Post
    A great tactic (IMO) to making the jump to building for others is to offer a few instruments to friends for the cost of materials (and a 6 er of decent beer) with the proviso that they live with the results. Amazing how much you step up your game when you have the pressure of making an instrument that will please someone else.
    You are up against enthusiastic folk willing to work for a few beers.

    I rest my case.

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  18. #38
    Ibis - Unique Instruments Yaron Naor's Avatar
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    Default Re: How do I become a luthier?

    Come work with me.....
    Thanks
    Yaron Naor

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    Default Re: How do I become a luthier?

    To the OP:

    Were I you, I'd be on the next plane heading for Israel.
    I have only regretted opportunities I was offered and declined.

  20. #40
    Registered User belbein's Avatar
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    Default Re: How do I become a luthier?

    I'm not a luthier, and I don't play one of TV, but I have been watching what's been going on in the musical instrument market for 20+ years. Nkforster alluded to it, but I'll say it outright. The problem is that when you start you are going to only be able to sell your instruments at the low end of the market--but the overseas builders are going to blow you out of the water on price and superficial looks. At the high end, the customers are going to demand a Pava or a Cohen or a Jacobson or an instrument from all of the folks who have posted here--and their product is going to be lightyears ahead of yours for a very long time (though maybe not lightyears). So you are going to labor in the fields of the Free Market for a long, long time. I'm not dissuading you, but I think you have to be not only a good businessman, but also very conscious of the economy involving musical instruments. And if there's a medical school in your area, it would not hurt to go marry an up-and-coming anaesthesiologist.
    belbein

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  21. #41
    Registered User Inklings's Avatar
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    Default Re: How do I become a luthier?

    Yaron, are you really hiring apprentices? That's a kind offer!
    Kirby Francis

    Francis Guitar Repair

  22. #42

    Default Re: How do I become a luthier?

    I used to build guitars and lutes, back in about -1973-1977
    I was in high school and then college.
    I had no money, no internet, and only one book, Robert Sloan's Classical Guitar construction.
    I created molds for sides from laminated 2x4s, went to sears for clamps and crude handtools, sandpaper etc., built a long trough from galvinezed sheet metal to sit on my stove and boil my hand cut and planed rosewood sides so I could bend them....used xactos, my swiss knife, and hand planes and Japanese saws. Hand tools...are....really slow compared to power. but...cheaper and more controllable most of the time.

    when I was seventeen, I went to NBN and OME out side of Boulder, the local guitar shops and their luthiers, Max Krimmel (another local builder), and simply made it my passion to learn, any way, anywhere.

    I lived in a high rise, and built my instruments on the kitchen table.....

    heres my point, as others,
    Do it, and do it in as shallow or as in depth a fashion as you can afford.
    Set aside a work area, and like a writer, devote some portion of each day.

    Don't create the wheel, like I tried, as it isn't necessary. Classes would be great.

    While business plans and thought are well advised, there is NOTHING like making that first instrument and learning how and what you did right and wrong. The biggest difference, beside available resources and info, is wood is so much more expensive .Not to mention you perception of your time as an adult.

    Jump in, and, see if it suits you. I was never as happy or as fulfilled as the time I spent building. My ultimate wish was to build an F5, which I thought and knew to be so far beyond my skills and knowledge at the time.

    But, now, as an apparently loathed lawyer, LOL, I am fortunate that I can pretty much afford better than I could likely ever have built. And like one's own hand at cooking, no matter how good, life's a big banquet and there's so much more out there to learn from. You wont know if this is your calling until you do it. For me, I liken it in some regards to the precision, experience and patience of a surgeon , once you get pretty good.

    I too agree about repairing being a lot tougher. Creating you own perfection is tough, but putting someone's back as they did , is tougher. Detective work in essence. (I tried fine painting restoration at one time too........)

    GO FOR IT. Buy a kit if you like and use it for a starter template, if you like.

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