Does String Gauge Affect Intonation?

[Christine Robins]

Will changing to heavier or lighter strings change your instrument's intonation? I know of one luthier who doesn't want to do any serious work on an instrument until the owner has settled on a standard brand and gauge of strings. I know that nut and bridge slots may have to be enlarged for heavier strings, but what about bridge placement?

Personally, my age (71) and physical problems require comfort as the primary consideration. Volume is unimportant. So I've been playing GHS untra-lights (9-34), and like them. But should I wait on getting intonation adjusted (which is needed) until I decide that these are my permanent, standard strings?

[EdHanrahan]

Disclaimer: I'm not a luthier, and certainly not professional, but have been setting up guitars and mandolins for a fair spell.

Technically, your luthier is correct. In the real world, any difference is probably not noticeable to most of us, and may well fall within the range of intonation variance (that is, inherent inaccuracy) that's built into every fretted instrument.

[pops1]

Yes it will effect intonation, as will string height, truss rod adjustment, etc. It is not that big a deal to move the bridge for at least a close intonation adjustment. I would do it most every time. I have a very light action and heavier strings allow me to have a lower action as they have less movement. I need a mandolin that plays very easy. The light strings would feel good I am sure, but you will have to keep them higher off the fingerboard. If you can learn to adjust the intonation your self then you can change gauges of strings until you get what you want and let your luthier fine tune the intonation when you have settled on a gauge.

[rockies]

Yes, it used to drive me nuts when I had my repair business. Young players always changing sets of strings from .008" up to .014" (high E) and in between depending on the favorite player of the week ie( SrV. Electric guitars have individual string intonation adjustments on the bridge for this purpose to compensate for string guage..
Dave

[dorenac]

What about changing gauges a .001 +/- or so? Example: the A strings from .015 .016, or D strings from .025 to .026? I can see where the nut and bridge may or may not accomodate a gauge size, but is there some wriggle room?

[Folkmusician.com]

Does it change intonation... absolutely, but it is not a big deal. The instrument is always moving around. Bridges tend to lean forward and need to be pushed back from time time time, action changes, with humidity, etc...

There are many factors at play.. Lighter strings equal less tension, which flatten the intonation, but with the top under slightly less tension, the action may raise slightly. higher action, sharpens intonation, counteracting less string tension... The slight relief change from changing tension may counteract something else.... So that is where it becomes somewhat instrument specific in regard to what happens. A general rule is that lighter strings flatten intonation.

You want to tweak your bridge position and every once in a while you have string slot issues when changing gauge, but all of this happens anyway. An instrument that has optimal (there is no perfect) intonation, may need minor tweaking within a week anyway.


Now in the ops specific case, going from mediums to a 9-34 is extreme enough that it will need some adjustment. And not just intonation. This is a big enough change that the whole setup may need some minor work. It just depends. I wouldn't worry about it too much though. If the intonation issues are not bother you, I would finalize on the strings before making adjustments, or simply move the bridge myself.

[Ivan Kelsall]

From Christine Robins - ".....until the owner has settled on a standard brand and gauge of strings.". In one way,that might deter the owner from experimenting with different string brands & gauges, in order to get the best from their mandolin.

Tom Ellis told me that he sets his mandolins up for GHS A270 strings & his ''own make'' bridges are compensated for those strings - however. I've had D'Addario EJ74's on my Ellis "A" style which apart from the 'A' strings are the same gauges as A270's. A270 "A" strings are .016", EJ74 "A" strings are .015". I noticed no change whatsoever in intonation,although the difference in 'sound' was quite apparent,as you'd expect.
I did ask Tom about strings in general, & he told me that although he prefers the GHS strings,he's tried other strings & they worked out ok.

I have tried heavier strings on my Lebeda which is a larger than 'standard' mandolin,again with no noticeable change in intonation. The change was from DR MD11's to MD12's. I was hoping that the heavier strings would 'drive' the top more = more volume. It did,but only if i 'picked harder'. So,applying the common sense i should have applied initially,i changed back to the lighter MD11's,picked as hard on those as i'd done on the MD12's & got far more volume,
Ivan

[Willie Poole]

I am sure glad that someone asked this question, I have been in a discussion about this same thing for some time and I am also glad to see that some real good builders and repairmen agree with what I have been saying all along that string gauge does change intonation but when only a slight difference is made like going fro a .015 to a .016 gauge A string most people cannot hear the difference but a good electronic tuner sure does see it...

I am also glad to see that Robert Fear agrees with me on the fact that NO mandolin has perfect intonation, it just can`t be with the way they are designed, we just don`t have good enough hearing to hear the differences, to the ear they sound perfect...Some time some where some will figure it out with out using that fingerboard with staggered frets....
:mandosmiley

Willie...

[pops1]

Very few string instruments have perfect intonation, that's why those instruments you see with fan frets or the magnetic fretboard that is replaceable for each key to try and play in tune. I try to compensate each string of my mandolin and while it may not be perfect it plays very well in tune. When I intonate someones instrument I always ask how they play, a lead player that plays up the neck, guitar especially, I will use the typical 12th fret intonation as that is where they hang out, but a rhythm player that plays mostly in first position I will intonate around the 7th fret so 1st position chords are more in tune, and if a lead is played it is also not bad.

[Ivan Kelsall]

It's possibly a good thing that we don't have ears like electronic tuners,however,our ears are far more accurate when it comes to getting the 2 strings in a pair to be in 'unison'. If i tune both strings in a pair to any tuner,i can get them spot on (i'm clever that way !) BUT - when i play the 2 strings together,they never seem right. I tune one string to a tuner,then the second string to the first. That always causes the 1st string to go a tiny bit flat due to the neck flexing,but i re-tune & do it again until both strings when played together 'sound like one string'. Only then are they perfectly ''in unison'' as they should be. I suspect that's why,in an orchestra,even with 'modern aids'', the individual musicians don't all tune to their own tuner,they all tune to one of the instruments,usually the Oboe.
Human hearing is far more accurate than we give ourselves credit for,
Ivan

[Nevin]

As others have said, yes it makes a difference. How big a difference depends on how different the strings are, not just gauge but also the string core and winding type. That said you should become comfortable making minor adjustments to your intonation. As mentioned above their are a lot of other things that can affect intonation and it is a good skill for anyone who plays floating bridge instruments to have.

[mandroid]

So, is the Intonation offset in mandolins Effected by the core wire in the wound strings ?

[pops1]

The core among other things effects the tension of the string. I was using GHS phosphor bronze and when I went to the white bronze the core was .003 less than the .040 string of the phosphor so I used a .042 to have the tension I wanted. Otherwise I would have had to use a .038, as they didn't make anything in between, and I wanted more tension than the .038 would provide.

[Folkmusician.com]

The core of the wound string is what determines the tension (and effects the intonation), but the winding does seem to come into play as well. This changes the mass and even the action based on the width of a string. I can tell you that a .034 requires the bass side of the bridge to move forward quite a bit compared to a .040. Everytime I intonate an xtra-light set like this the bridge ends up twisted.