Is there such a thing as a "Mandolin Culture?"

[Bill McCall]

So, I say the mandolin community is different

Of course, its playing the world's most perfect instrument.

[Jim Bevan]

I read the Cafe all the time, I feel like I know many of the contributors well (in a sort of Internet-age-y way), and I feel like I'm part of a community, but, love the mandolin as we all do, I don't feel any cultural bond with the rest of the group. Quite the contrary -- I feel that we're all here despite our cultural differences.

[Mandomusic]

Another "c" word comes to mind in addition to "community" and "culture" with respect to the mandolin. That word is "connection." Whenever I hear music played that has a mandolin in it, my ears instantly perk up (regardless of genre or ability). Whenever I see another mandolin player, a positive conversation typically unfolds--the instrument immediately connects us.

We play a niche instrument for a reason (like the sound, the adventure of exploring something less traveled, the personal size, the craftsmanship of the instruments, and the like) and we have passion for it. Reading the emotion in the varied posts in the Cafe, that passion evolves, regardless of what style of music we play on it.

Part of the connection is the discovery of an instrument that brings us joy. Another part of the connection is that judgmentally, we play the coolest instrument on earth. And how many times have we been asked: is that a ukelele or banjo you are playing? No, its a mandolin...

[nickster60]

Just my opinion. I think most people who play the mandolin it wasn't their first choice of instrument. Most of us started playing other instruments before we discovered the mandolin. I don't think most young musicians are exposed to the mandolin. For that reason most of us play multiple instruments and that being said our musical palate may be more diverse. Is there a mandolin culture? Maybe we should call it a Mandolin Cult.

[Bertram Henze]

Just my opinion. I think most people who play the mandolin it wasn't their first choice of instrument.
...
Maybe we should call it a Mandolin Cult.

I played other instruments before the mandolin, but they were other people's choices being thrust upon me. So my own first choice was indeed the mandolin.
And I'd call it a mandolin sanctuary.

[Dagger Gordon]

That's a great line of thought (and linguistics was part of my doctoral dissertation). That colonial effect had a sort of static effect as well among the colonists. "L'Algiers est la France" was the cry among French colonial ex-pats in Algeria when France "abandoned" them and granted independence. They (the colonials) believed were the only "true" French. I also read that when Scottish musicians wanted to revive the old traditional styles, they went to NOVA Scotia in Canada, because the "colonials" tended to hold fast to old ways, whereas the homelanders evolved in a more natural way. When I did French Renaissance music with a choir, I learned that Quebecois was closer to "old" French than modern Parisian. Very helpful post--thanks!

Actually in France I have run into a 'mandolin culture'. There is a group called the Melonious Quartet, led by Patrick Vaillant, who have a small international mandolin festival called Mandopolis, which I have played at. They call this "Le Front de Libération de la Mandoline".

Their website is not kept up to date very well, but gives you an idea.

http://www.mandopolis.org/

http://melonious.mandopolis.org/

[MandoAblyss]

They call this "Le Front de Libération de la Mandoline".

Vive le FLM!

[ProfChris]

A particularly interesting thread for me because I'm currently engaged in research into online communities from the perspective of legal philosophy (yes, I do know that we academics should get out more!). That project began through my involvement in ukulele playing and making, which showed me a complex group of sub-communities which does seem to coalesce into a wider ukulele community (subject to many of the caveats in this thread, the banjo ukers are really quite separate for example).

Doc, you might find it interesting, as a benchmark, to attend a ukulele festival. I had thought there were no purely mandolin festivals until the French one was mentioned, but there are dozens in the UK and probably hundreds in the US. It seems to me that there's a kind of player/participant culture at work, where those who purely want to play for their own pleasure band together in uke clubs (all playing the same chords in unison, and singing in unison), and then ganging together in bigger groups to hear the ukulele performers (and to recreate their unison club music) at festivals.

The mandolin looks different to me, though I only lurks on the edge of the culture. But I don't see beginner and moderately skilled mandolin players banding together in the same way. Part of this must be that the mandolin is rarely used for solo vocal accompaniment, whereas if you can play three chords on the uke and sing you have a performing act, if a short one

The reasons for this difference, and how they shape the culture, might be worth exploring. Someone mentioned harpists as gathering together, but I doubt they play en masse, so that might be the other end of the spectrum.

[SincereCorgi]

Doc, you might find it interesting, as a benchmark, to attend a ukulele festival. I had thought there were no purely mandolin festivals until the French one was mentioned, but there are dozens in the UK and probably hundreds in the US. It seems to me that there's a kind of player/participant culture at work, where those who purely want to play for their own pleasure band together in uke clubs (all playing the same chords in unison, and singing in unison), and then ganging together in bigger groups to hear the ukulele performers (and to recreate their unison club music) at festivals.

Ukuleles are 1) physically easier to play because of nylon strings and lower tension 2) so similar to guitar tuning that the chord voicings sound familiar and lend themselves better to recreating the sound of well-known songs 3) unintimidating, to the point where some consider them frivolous. I think it's the perfect instrument for the self-teachers of the age of YouTube and message boards.

Which, of course, makes me wonder how mandolin orchestras were ever a phenomenon at all. In my experience, most advanced mandolin players usually play a number of other instruments as well, often within a few well-defined genres. Mandolin players who only play mandolin are, at least around here, usually adult hobbyists who are more interested in the social aspects of playing. If there's any sense of community among mandolinists who play in particular genres like swing or blues, it's the camaraderie of sticking up for an oddball instrument in a culture where they get a lot of funny looks and dumb questions.

[J.Albert]

Question:
"Other than the common instrument, is there such a thing as the mandolin culture/community/society"

Answer:
Yer lookin' at it. Right here.

[Randi Gormley]

fwiw I think there is a (relatively) large and strictly mando-centric gathering in the US, by the way, or else the stuff I've heard about CMSA's yearly convention has been misconstrued...

I'm curious about another line of thought arising from the original question. Do people who live in more than one music genre as mandolinists find differences in themselves as they move from genre to genre? I'm thinking about music cultures, f'rinstance, where expected behavior is fairly well defined. Are mandolinists, or any musicians, chameleons? Does dedication to music create lines between disparate communities that otherwise wouldn't exist? -- barring general good manners and general humanity, of course.

I've attended a mandolin-family-specific workshop (Carlo Aonzo's Manhattan Mandolin Workshop) where we're all playing classical from sheet music when we're rehearsing or working on a piece. It's a lot like my band experience in high school, all focus, all music-driven, getting runs correctly, playing softly behind soloists ... but in the breaks, everybody sits back, relaxes a bit and suddenly there's a bluegrass run or an ITM jig. We're the same people, but our focus has changed. Does our mindset, I wonder? do we have a "classical" persona we put on just for that?

I also have attended ITM or folk workshops where mandolins are few and far between. There, you don't often see sheet music, people play however (although with the same focus and passion), drink is often flowing and the crowd can get rowdy. Do I become a different person to blend in?

[ProfChris]

Ukuleles are 1) physically easier to play because of nylon strings and lower tension 2) so similar to guitar tuning that the chord voicings sound familiar and lend themselves better to recreating the sound of well-known songs 3) unintimidating, to the point where some consider them frivolous. I think it's the perfect instrument for the self-teachers of the age of YouTube and message boards.

True to some extent, though playing open G, C and D chords on the mandolin is very little harder. So why is there no culture of three chord songs in G for voice and mandolin? And no culture of purely instrumental ukulele music until the last 10 years? I don't think these are down to the instrument, because at the level of performances to paying customers I don't see there to be a radically different level of musicianship.

This might be the kind of question which Doc would want to investigate.

[Gelsenbury]

Yes, I think there is a mandolin culture. As evidence, it has already been mentioned that many mandolinists cross over between genres for the love of playing mandolin. From my own experience, I can confirm that I have discovered music outside of my previous favourite genre (and in some cases changed my tastes permanently) simply because it had mandolin in it. And when we see someone play mandolin, we are interested in equipment and technique - regardless of genre. Some of this may come from our minority status: Seeing and hearing mandolins is unusual enough to attract attention and promote a sense of kinship. But it would be wrong to say that this minority status is the only reason for the mandolin culture. It just makes a unique mandolin culture easier to "imagine" as a community, if we extrapolate from Benedict Anderson's writing about nations.

Like other cultures, the mandolin culture has its symbols and values. The Mandolin Café sticker on my instrument case, my Mandolin Café baseball cap, the mandolin T-shirt I'm wearing - all of these signify the mandolin culture and my identification with it. They are about more than my liking of mandolins: They show it to the outside world, highlight it to kindred spirits, start conversations. The Mandolin Café is instrumental in spreading these symbols and promoting these connections.

Values are perhaps less obvious ... or too obvious. The mandolin is a great instrument and should be promoted. The instrument should be looked after and handled with care. Tremolo is worth learning but shouldn't be over-used. Not all of these are unique to mandolin culture; but values are cross-cultural and not meant to be unique.

Having said all of this about mandolin culture, of course I don't mean to say that genre cultures (e.g. in bluegrass or Irish) are less important. But I think there is evidence to suggest that a cross-cutting mandolin culture exists in the life-world of mandolin players.

[Jim Imhoff]

Randi,
That idea of persona will be important to my study, the way people think of themselves when they pick up the instrument. First, is it a step away from being a banker/teacher/engineer/barista... second, as you suggest is there a different sense of self (and place) when going as I do from jam to rehearsal? Appreciate the thoughts!

[Jim Imhoff]

jackofblack, would you care to elaborate, as many people posted thoughtful and critical comments that say "yes?"

[Bob Clark]

I believe a mandolin culture does exist, and I experience it when I encounter mandolinists in non-musical settings. When I travel with my mandolin and am on a train or in a train station, if another mandolinist notices it, I have found an instant companion and we have lots to talk about. The presence of my mandolin in its case was the only thing that identified me as a member of this clan, but that was enough to trigger an instant bond.

Likewise, when I am traveling without my mandolin, by plane for example, and I see someone carrying a mandolin case in an airport, I immediately introduce myself and we have instant grounds for enlivened conversation. Regardless of which genres we play, age differences or differences in other recognizable attributes, we are of a common clan.

I do not see the same degree of instant acceptance when I observe two guitarists awaiting a train or plane. I believe the difference is that guitars are fairly common, yet mandolins are an oddity. It is as if we are wearing a secret badge or know some secret handshake. The bond of the mandolin clan is immediate and relatively strong.

In my travels, I have encountered a number of mandolinists on account of one or the other of us carrying a mandolin case, or one or the other wearing a Mandolin Cafe hat (the Cafe really does promote this culture). I value these interactions. I believe they indicate the existence of a mandolin culture on one level or another.

[Mark Gunter]

So why is there no culture of three chord songs in G for voice and mandolin?

An assumption would be because the limited, higher registers of the mandolin are less suited to vocal accompaniment than ukelele, guitar or piano.

[Charles E.]

Um, it's called Bluegrass.

[Mark Gunter]

Um, it's called Bluegrass.

Uh, Charles, I haven't seen much Bluegrass with just mandolin and vocals - but then I'm a newbie. Most Bluegrass I've seen adds bass, banjo, fiddle and guitar. Not saying it isn't done solo with mandolin and voice, but I don't think that's the culture.

[Jim Imhoff]

Uh, Charles, I haven't seen much Bluegrass with just mandolin and vocals - but then I'm a newbie. Most Bluegrass I've seen adds bass, banjo, fiddle and guitar. Not saying it isn't done solo with mandolin and voice, but I don't think that's the culture.

Yes, Mark; I have seen Chris Thiele do a whole evening of just mando and vocals, but he is a rare artist. I have tried and it is unsatisfactory, even when my wife plays banjo with me. A guitar at least is needed to fill out the lower harmonic range.

[Dagger Gordon]

I had thought there were no purely mandolin festivals until the French one was mentioned.

Actually there was also another pretty big one in France called Mandolines De Lunel, which has featured many of the big names but looks to have stopped. Some good videos if you take a look.

http://www.mandolinesdelunel.com/2015/accueil/

https://www.facebook.com/mandolinesdelunel

[Bertram Henze]

Uh, Charles, I haven't seen much Bluegrass with just mandolin and vocals - but then I'm a newbie. Most Bluegrass I've seen adds bass, banjo, fiddle and guitar. Not saying it isn't done solo with mandolin and voice, but I don't think that's the culture.

Yeah, a culture like that cannot be defined by a single instrument existing on its own, but it can be by its unique role in a larger context, or by a variety of roles in different contexts. There is Mr Monroe, and there is Joe Dolce...

Even Superman would be nothing without all the bad guys providing todos

[Petrus]

Ukuleles are 1) physically easier to play because of nylon strings and lower tension 2) so similar to guitar tuning that the chord voicings sound familiar and lend themselves better to recreating the sound of well-known songs 3) unintimidating, to the point where some consider them frivolous. I think it's the perfect instrument for the self-teachers of the age of YouTube and message boards.

I hear that I lot and I've tried several times to get into the uke and just haven't been able to do it. The reentrant tuning throws me off, and I can't seem to get those nylon strings to stay in tune. I usually end up "experimenting," first by wrestling the thing into familiar 5ths tuning, then trying to finagle metal strings onto it, then realizing I'm never going to make Jake Shimabukuru nervous and that I could just as well be playing one of my mandolins and thus endeth the endeavor.

So, I think the mandolin may be easier to play than the uke in some ways, which maybe contributes to the sense of "mandolin culture" as such. ( <-- Topic sentence)

I do play other instruments tuned in 5ths like the tenor banjo, tenor guitar, and of course other mandolin family instruments. These can be fun too, though it occasionally dawns on me that I'm not learning a whole lot of new tricks by doing this since they're all tuned similarly and I end up playing almost my same repertoire on all of them -- I mainly learn how to stretch those fingers. But there's something about four strings/courses (matching with four fingers) and 5ths tuning that makes sense to me (probably coming from a violin background.)

[Bob A]

Yes, Mark; I have seen Chris Thiele do a whole evening of just mando and vocals, but he is a rare artist. I have tried and it is unsatisfactory, even when my wife plays banjo with me. A guitar at least is needed to fill out the lower harmonic range.

If I may be permitted to continue with a de-railing here, I found a mandola for the very purpose of accompanying my daughter's vocals, some time ago. While I'm charmed by the instrument, I often think that it has achieved only limited use because its range is swamped by that of the guitar. That said, it bears most of the benefits of the mandolin: tuned in 5ths, easy portability, and of course obscurity.

[CarlM]

Yes, Mark; I have seen Chris Thiele do a whole evening of just mando and vocals, but he is a rare artist. I have tried and it is unsatisfactory, even when my wife plays banjo with me. A guitar at least is needed to fill out the lower harmonic range.

Bela and Abigail will also do a whole evening of just banjo and vocals. Also rare artists.

Charles Sawtelle is said to have expounded on that point once to Tim O'Brien stating that it is impossible to create beautiful music on an instrument with only highs and no midrange. Tim then proceeded to play an astounding, extraordinary, wonderful solo mandolin piece. He looked at Charles and said something like "Well, what about that?" Charles then responded "I rest my case."