Mandolin Setup with Detailed Photos

[Mike Conner]

In researching and preparing for an F style mandolin build, I have been fortunate to closely examine and set up two mandolins, a friends Weber Bitteroot and my brothers Breedlove Rogue. Both mandolins are excellent instruments and have been well played.

I have taken some cell phone photos throughout the setup process and post them here with some descriptions of the methods I use. I am certain there are other ways to accomplish the goal, and hope that there is a constructive dialog on alternative methods.

The first thing to do is an examination of my victims, measuring and photographing to help with the final adjustments, since in both cases the owners were satisfied with the action. etc.

The Weber Bitteroot:


The Breedlove Rogue ("K" style):


The Breedlove especially has outstanding curly maple with walnut binding:

[Mike Conner]

A simple support made from some recycled packing foam helps keep things steady:


First we need to play the mandolins to get a feel of where they are action and tone wise, and to carefully check the intonation:

The Weber was 10 cents sharp at the 7th fret, and 25 cents or more at the 12th fret (25 cents = 1/4 tone).
The Breedlove was 7ish cent sharp at the 7th fret, and 10 to 12 cents sharp at the 12th fret.
10 cents is definitely noticeable.
Both need some adjustment of bridge position and saddle string notches to correct the intonation.

[Mike Conner]

Now for some measuring. Here are the tools I used:


The bridge height. Should be typically in the range of 0.750", and both were as expected:


Neck relief using a 12" rule. Lay from 1st fret forward and look for the gap at the 7th fret or so. I don't measure with feeler gages and just trust my eye on this. The strings pushed down at the 1st and 14th frets make a good alternative straight edge:


Action at the 12th fret - distance from top of 12th fret and bottoms of strings. Both were in the range of 4/64" to 5"64", around 0.070":

An alternative to a 6" rule are these string action gages - I got my cheap version through Amazon and it works fine for me:

[Mike Conner]

The Weber has a Brekke bridge, and the Breedlove a more conventional style. Both were well fit to the top plate with no noticeable gaps:


There are several good sources for how to use sandpaper to fit the bridge base if needed. I follow the usual process, but not needed here:


The Breedlove was shipped (maybe 12 years ago) new with a factory installed McIntyre piezo pickup. The black putty had failed and the sensor was loose inside the body. My brother decided to have the pickup removed rather than reglued or replaced - he was not impressed with the McIntyre and really doesn't need one right now:


Given that the Breedlove fit and finish and materials are so world class in quality, it was surprising to find a rather clumsy endpin jack installation. The hole in the tail block was way bigger than the 1/2" needed, and the endpin jack is just connected to the tailpiece by the outer 1/2" nut. The expected inner nut and washer, and the metal cover sleeve were not installed. The cable retainer was not crimped to the outer sleeve, and the connections were wrapped with electrical tape instead of the usual shrink wrap:


The tailpiece was reinstalled with the endpin jack:


Then the strap button threaded onto the endpin shaft:

[Mike Conner]

The Breedlove nut was made really well, but the slots are somewhat deeper than necessary. A little tweaking will help with potential tuning problems, and we will need to make some adjustments anyway after the frets are dressed:


Here's the Breedlove fretboard as received:


The really unique Breedlove Rogue inlay from 7th to 12th frets:


Fret wear typical of well-played mandolins - really hard on those frets!

[Mike Conner]

A very fine tooth mill file to level the frets - stopping just as the wear marks disappear:


After leveling with the file:


Here's where I diverge from the conventional methods. I have a couple of different fret crowning files, but better results using wet-dry sandpaper. 400 grit folded in thirds and held in my fingers, I rub along the length of the fretboard. This abrades the sharp edges of the leveled frets and generates a nice crown:


Vacuum, then repeat with 600 grit:


Buff with fine and ultra fine 3M polishing pads (way neater then traditional steel wool and no steel fiber debris), then wipe with lemon oil once to clean the crud, then one more time to polish:

[Mike Conner]

The bridge saddles need some refinement - the as received string notches are deeper than necessary and some carving needed to improve on the intonation. I believe that for archtops the string notches should be narrowed and just enough to retain the string positions during vigorous playing. Here is the before and after view of the Breedlove saddle (sorry about the poor focus):


The bridge feet fit really well on both mandolins, but just to be sure, I usually use a pocket knife to scrape a very shallow hollow in the foot (rubbed the foot with pencil for easy visibility). This can help ensure the bridge will have a firm footing:


The Breedlove bridge after modifications:


The Weber Brekke bridge ebony saddle was modified in a similar way:

[Mike Conner]

The nut profile can be reduced to minimize the chance for binding in the slots during tuning. Ideally, the nut height is reduces so only about 1/2 the diameter of the wound strings is in the slot. The slots must be cut a little deeper to compensate for the fret dressing. I don't use feelers gages to measure string slot depth, but use the method shown below. Press the string lightly on the 3rd fret and look for the gap between the top of the 1st fret and the bottom of the string. Cut the nut slot until the string is just above the fret, and can be lightly tapped down to touch the fret (you can hear this usually):


Nut has been optimized:


Ready to test drive:

[Mike Conner]

Missed some details I meant to mention:
- The Weber Bitteroot is 1-1/8" nut, 14" scale with 10" radius.
- The Breedlove Roque is 1-3/16" nut, 13-7/8" scale and 10" radius.

The bridge photo of the Breedlove above is marked to show the as received bridge location. It needed to move towards the tailpiece about 3/32" or so to correct for intonation.

The Weber before and after bridge location is shown here. Note how the bridge now lines up with the inner f-hole notches:


Both mandolins have nice low action now and close to ideal intonation. It would be quick to loosen the truss rod or raise the bridge if more relief is needed. Dennis has played his Weber at a couple of shows now and reports that the tone and action are significantly improved.

[Clinton Johnson]

Thank you so much for this Mike. My set up skills need some serious refining.

[dschonbrun]

Great thread, and shows how much goes into good setup. Thank you!

[John Kelly]

Very useful and detailed account of the process, Mike. Thanks for sharing.

[Paul Busman]

Great posting-- thanks.
I have a question-- you show how you carve a hollow in the foot of the bridge. That reduces the square inches that the bridge contacts the top. I'd think that would be detrimental, nn?

[Mike Conner]

Paul: My theory and observations regarding the bridge fit:
The typical sandpaper method for fitting the bridge base can leave a very slight convex curve to the bridge feet, and this could lead to a very small "rocking" in the fit of the bridge feet to the top. The pressure of the feet would be concentrated at the center.

The hollow with a pocket knife technique really helps when sanding to fit the bridge. The bridge is less likely to rock and form the convex curve, and you are removing less material by sanding.

The hollow I am creating is really very shallow, following the curve of the pocket knife blade used as a scraper.

My focus is to ensure that the maximum energy of the vibrating strings and bridge is conducted to the top plate. My thinking is that the slight rocking of a convex foot would affect the volume and tone more than the concave curve (hollow) created by the knife.

All this is just my thinking on it, and it seems to work well on the archtop guitars I have built and guitars and mandolins I have setup. I could be wrong Hoping others chime in with their opinions...
//mike

[Paul Busman]

That makes sense and like you say, it works for you. If I were to try that I'd be tempted to use either a Dremel, or a small woodcarving curved chisel.

[Mike Conner]

Thanks, Paul. The pocket knife as a scraper makes it easy to just take a small amount off. It's a really shallow hollow I am aiming for. Just something I started doing a few years ago, and I am curious about what other folks might be doing.

[Chris Daniels]

Thanks, Paul. The pocket knife as a scraper makes it easy to just take a small amount off. It's a really shallow hollow I am aiming for. Just something I started doing a few years ago, and I am curious abouth what other folks might be doing.

Looks very much like the below procedure described at the always-useful frets.com, which is the guide I used back when I started going through a bunch of cheap starters trying to find a decent beginner mando (all of them had horribly fit bridges):

http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Luth...t/fitfeet.html

C.

[HonketyHank]

That makes sense and like you say, it works for you. If I were to try that I'd be tempted to use either a Dremel, or a small woodcarving curved chisel.

Dremel, maybe. But as a woodcarver, I would never let you use one of my gouges as a scraper, especially on a really hard wood like ebony or even rosewood. It would take me hours to get my edge back in shape. I would recommend a simple X-Acto knife (perhaps AKA 'hobby knife' or 'craft knife') with the curved-end blade. Easy, cheap, blades are disposable. Those things are handy for lots of miscellaneous tasks. I have a few on hand with extra blades.

[Paul Busman]

I wasn't talking about using it as a scraper. I meant to use it as a gouge, although on really hard wood that would definitely be tricky.

[pops1]

I used to have a Woodley mandolin, the bottom of the bridge was hollowed across the center also.

[Mike Conner]

Looks very much like the below procedure described at the always-useful frets.com, which is the guide I used back when I started going through a bunch of cheap starters trying to find a decent beginner mando (all of them had horribly fit bridges):

http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Luth...t/fitfeet.html

C.

Chris,
I have been using the pocket knife method for many years and it has been part of my routine for so long I hadn't recalled where I first discovered it. Odds are very good that I saw it on frets.com early on, and really enjoyed revisiting the pages last night. Frank Ford gave us an incredible resource, and his common sense approach and friendly and humorous writing style are really encouraging.

If you are out there, thanks Frank!
//mike