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Thread: Ave Maria (Gounod/Bach), with free karaoke piano backing track

  1. #1
    Registered User Martin Jonas's Avatar
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    Default Ave Maria (Gounod/Bach), with free karaoke piano backing track

    Charles Gounod (1818-1893): Méditation sur le Premier Prélude de Piano de S. Bach
    Solo mandolin performed by Martin Jonas.
    Piano accompaniment performed by Héctor Valls, downloaded from IMSLP under Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0 license.


    This is Gounod's famous Ave Maria, consisting of a melody that he superimposed over an only very slightly changed version of the Prelude No. 1 in C major, BWV 846, from Book I of J.S. Bach's The Well-Tempered Clavier.

    Gounod's original version was in C Major, for piano and violin or cello. Later, the words to "Ave Maria" were added and the piece transposed to various other keys to suit the vocalist's range.

    I am playing Gounod's melody on mandolin, overdubbed onto a recording of the Bach piano accompaniment performed by Héctor Valls which I downloaded from IMSLP. Score and MP3 of the accompaniment are at:

    http://imslp.org/wiki/Ave_Maria_(Gounod,_Charles)

    Héctor has recorded the accompaniment in G major, F major and D major, but not in Gounod's original C major. My recording uses the G major version, which can be played entirely in first position (unlike Gounod's original). There are a considerable number of different arrangements at IMSLP. The one I found to work best with the piano backing track is the attached one edited by Pierre Gouin.

    I am playing my 1915 Luigi Embergher mandolin on this recording.



    Martin
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails IMSLP130275-WIMA.edbe-Gounod_Ave_Maria(1).pdf  

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  3. #2
    Registered User JH Murray's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ave Maria (Gounod/Bach), with free karaoke piano backing trac

    You are having some real fun with these Martin. It is taking you to a whole new level.

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    Registered User Hany Hayek's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ave Maria (Gounod/Bach), with free karaoke piano backing trac

    This was beautifully done. Thanks for sharing
    “Music expresses that which cannot be said and on which it is impossible to be silent.”
    ― Victor Hugo

  5. #4

    Default Re: Ave Maria (Gounod/Bach), with free karaoke piano backing trac

    I play this in C and have a workable guitar transcription (if you don't mind a two-string barre with the pinkie) of the original prelude I'd be willing to share. (Just repeat the first four measures as intro before the Gounod melody enters.)

  6. #5
    Registered User Martin Jonas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ave Maria (Gounod/Bach), with free karaoke piano backing trac

    Thanks, JH/Hany/Eugene. I'm pleased with how these karaoke recordings turn out, but I can't claim the credit: much of the musicality is in Héctor's wonderful backing tracks. Having an actual human (and a professional musician at that) to play with allows for more expression than multi-tracking to a click track.

    Eugene: I'm not sure a guitar arrangement of the original Bach prelude would work. Wikipedia says:

    "The version of Bach's prelude used by Gounod includes the "Schwencke measure" (m.23), a measure allegedly added by Christian Friedrich Gottlieb Schwencke in an attempt to correct what he or someone else erroneously deemed a "faulty" progression, even though this sort of progression was standard in Bach's music."

    So, either you need to use a guitar arrangement with that added measure, or add it yourself in order to make the prelude fit Gounod's melody.

    Martin

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    MandolaViola bratsche's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ave Maria (Gounod/Bach), with free karaoke piano backing trac

    I'm not sure it would matter, Martin, other than to a complete stickler for details who would notice such a difference. On my "to-do" list is making a multi-track, adding the Gounod "Ave" melody (on viola) to the Bach I recorded on mandola, in C. I've already created an arrangement of the two parts in my cheapo-Finale program, and had I not been informed just now about this "Schwenke measure", I wouldn't have suspected anything was amiss at all. Actually, I still don't, after newly listening to the portion surrounding, and paying particular attention to, measure 23. The way the Bach harmony fits Gounod's melody sounds perfectly acceptable to me. (and I'm not sure how the versions differ, really).

    Even the Wikipedia entry says the Schwenke measure was created "in an attempt to correct what he or someone else erroneously deemed a "faulty" progression, even though this sort of progression was standard in Bach's music."

    So, it might not be the exact version Gounod used. But then, my version of the Bach, arranged to be playable on mandola, is not quite what Bach originally used, either. They sounds fine together, though, and that's the important thing.


    BTW, Martin, I don't know how you find time to do all these videos, but it's good that you do!

    bratsche
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  8. #7
    Registered User Martin Jonas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ave Maria (Gounod/Bach), with free karaoke piano backing trac

    Quote Originally Posted by bratsche View Post
    I'm not sure it would matter, Martin, other than to a complete stickler for details who would notice such a difference. On my "to-do" list is making a multi-track, adding the Gounod "Ave" melody (on viola) to the Bach I recorded on mandola, in C. I've already created an arrangement of the two parts in my cheapo-Finale program, and had I not been informed just now about this "Schwenke measure", I wouldn't have suspected anything was amiss at all. Actually, I still don't, after newly listening to the portion surrounding, and paying particular attention to, measure 23. The way the Bach harmony fits Gounod's melody sounds perfectly acceptable to me. (and I'm not sure how the versions differ, really).
    You may well be right. I haven't checked the Gounod score against the Bach original, but my reading of the Wikipedia entry was that there was an added measure. Taken literally, that would mean that from that point onwards, the melody and the original Back prelude be out of sync by one measure. However, if it's an altered measure, rather than an added one, then I agree it is most unlikely that it anybody would notice.

    Martin

  9. #8
    This Kid Needs Practice Bill Clements's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ave Maria (Gounod/Bach), with free karaoke piano backing trac

    Martin, what a fine performance.
    Your dynamic nuances, which are certainly not easy on the mandolin, came shining through.
    Most enjoyable.
    "Music is the only noise for which one is obliged to pay." ~ Alexander Dumas

  10. #9
    Registered User Martin Jonas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ave Maria (Gounod/Bach), with free karaoke piano backing trac

    Thanks, Bill. The melody line is pretty easy to play, so the focus in the performance is to stay in time with the pianist (which took a bit of trial and error and is not entirely perfect on the recording) and to practice expressive playing. Glad you liked it -- I'm having fun with these piano accompaniments and I would recommend them to others. Even if you're not recording, it's easy and fun to just play along with the MP3 through headphones. It really forces you to listen to the piano and is a more musical experience than practising to a metronome or click track.

    Martin

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    Orso grasso FatBear's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ave Maria (Gounod/Bach), with free karaoke piano backing trac

    I really like this, Martin. I don't want to hijack this thread, but if you have described how you make these recordings anywhere else I wonder if you could point me there?

  12. #11
    Registered User Martin Jonas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ave Maria (Gounod/Bach), with free karaoke piano backing trac

    Quote Originally Posted by FatBear View Post
    I really like this, Martin. I don't want to hijack this thread, but if you have described how you make these recordings anywhere else I wonder if you could point me there?
    Recordings using a pre-recorded piano accompaniment, such as the Ave Maria, are technically much easier than my usual ones where I record all the instruments myself. I'm using a Zoom H2n recorder in USB microphone mode connected to a Windows laptop running Audacity (which is free). For these recordings, I simply import the downloaded MP3 with the piano part into Audacity, play it through headphones and record the mandolin part overdubbed onto the piano track. No count-in or click track needed as the piano introduction does that job.

    My normal multitrack recordings are a bit more involved: I first make a click track with the tempo and length required, then record a guide track (usually the lead melody). This gives a structure to add all other instrumental parts one by one. The final track is to re-record the lead part and delete the original guide track. With a bit of practice, that's easier than it sounds.

    Martin

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  14. #12
    Registered User Tavy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ave Maria (Gounod/Bach), with free karaoke piano backing trac

    Very nicely done, and a fine idea that to play along with the piano recording!

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  16. #13
    Registered User Martin Jonas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ave Maria (Gounod/Bach), with free karaoke piano backing trac

    I have just made another recording of Gounod's Ave Maria, using the same pre-recorded backing track by Hector Valls from IMSLP. Some changes to my previous 2017 recording:

    1. Most obviously, this is a live video not just audio.
    2. Using my 1898 Giuseppe Vinaccia instead of the Embergher.
    3. No headphones, multi-tracking or post production editing involved in the recording -- this is a video and audio of my live performance made with the piano playing through speakers in the room. What you hear is what the microphone captured in the room.



    Martin

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