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Thread: Help Identifying an Old Kay Mandolin

  1. #1

    Default Help Identifying an Old Kay Mandolin

    I inherited my great grandfather's Kay mandolin. I do not know anything about it. On the inside there is a sticker that says Continental Tested and Approved. Underneath I think it says Quality Musical Instruments.

    The body seems to be all dark wood with a black pickguard. Kay is on the top of the headstock. It has black tuning knobs.

    If anyone can provide approximate age I would be very grateful.

    He died in 1938 and I have been told stories. I would like to confirm that it is possible it is from the 1930's or even earlier.
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  2. #2
    Registered User Bill Snyder's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help Identifying an Old Kay Mandolin

    The instrument has been refinished and I looks like the refinisher used stain like you would get at Lowes or a paint store and not one of the dyes normally used on instruments.
    1930's sounds reasonable as to decade of manufacture. You did not ask but it has very little monetary value.
    Bill Snyder

  3. #3
    Registered User nmiller's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help Identifying an Old Kay Mandolin

    No model ID, but the label is from the Coninental Music Company, a mail-order distributor out of NYC. Like most catalog companies, they sourced their instruments from various manufacturers and slapped on their own label.
    www.OldFrets.com: the obscure side of vintage instruments.

  4. #4
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help Identifying an Old Kay Mandolin

    It was probably built by Kay in Chicago. It looks like a Kay product but the logo isn't right. The internal sticker is the distributor that sold it. It appears that it might have had a pretty nasty headstock break, hard to tell from the picture, that could be an optical illusion. That appears to be a mandolin bridge top from another mandolin, it didn't come on this mandolin. The finish is not from the 30's. The finish is also way too shiny so something has been done to it, probably more recently. Somebody spent a whole lot of time polishing up that tailpiece. These were entry level instruments, they are on eBay in original condition and sell for very little. If you wanted to sell it and you could get $100.00 you should do a happy dance. If the outside, inside, and handle of the case were in good condition it might be worth more than the mandolin. In poor condition that's not a big factor.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

  5. #5

    Default Re: Help Identifying an Old Kay Mandolin

    Thank you everyone for responding so quickly to my questions. I realize the mandolin has very little value. All the value is sentimental as it belonged to my great grandfather. The headstock was broken and I had it repaired. The service man polished it up. The bridge was missing so he supplied one. The tuners are original still but he wanted to replace the tuning machine with all new knobs. One of the knobs broke when he was stringing it up due to age. He replaced that knob with a white one and painted it black.

    It is not playable in the current condition. I am contemplating replacing the tuning machine with a modern one but having trouble finding one with black buttons that doesn't cost an arm and a leg. I have no clue how it got broken but at any rate I am happy that it is in one piece now. I realize that maybe this isn't the best repair but I am satisfied. I don't believe it was ever refinished.

    I did order up the Wright book volume 2 to see if there are any photos in there I can match.

  6. #6
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help Identifying an Old Kay Mandolin

    The polishing might be what makes it look that way. I've seen a 30's Kay guitar with a faux koa/mahogany finish. Yours might have started that way. Post a picture of the back of the headstock and let's try and identify the tuners to see what we can suggest regarding replacements.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

  7. #7

    Default Re: Help Identifying an Old Kay Mandolin

    Hi, Thank you Mike. Attached are more pictures. Just got back from a music store and the rep said standard A tuning machine should fit, but he didn't take any measurements. He looked up some tuning machines in a catalog called Harris Teller? I think these are Chinese? Thank you for your help.
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  8. #8
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help Identifying an Old Kay Mandolin

    Those are pretty standard tuners. You can replace buttons but black can be hard to come by. Is one of them cracked? Those tuners were made in the US. Stewart-McDonald and a few other companies sell replacement tuners. Where are you located?

    Those are worm over A style tuners. If you've got to have black buttons there is a Stew-Mac Golden age at about $50.00 for the tuners. You'll pay more to get them installed. You can buy cheaper A style tuners if all you want is to make it playable and don't care about the color of the buttons.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

  9. #9

    Default Re: Help Identifying an Old Kay Mandolin

    Hi, I am in Dayton, Ohio. I found the tuning machine you mentioned. It looks really great. All the buttons on it now are about to fall apart. From what I can tell they are bakelite or some kind of plastic. I did some measurements and the center to center of that the tuning pegs is 23 mm. This seems to be standard. I am hopeful. There are some on ebay that are chinese, do not have black buttons and have 25 mm dimension. I don't think those will fit.

    If I get those StewMac ones I would need to have them installed. I don't have a clue on what I am doing. I will probably go ahead and order something and take a chance. I do not under any circumstances want to have to drill new holes.

    Thank you for your assistance. Photos attached of the Stew Mac's. Are these the ones you are talking about? Any other suggestions for a reasonable set? I could also probably live with chrome buttons. I don't think White or pearl would look very good with the black pick guard.
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  10. #10
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help Identifying an Old Kay Mandolin

    Those indeed are the tuners I was speaking about. Perhaps a Cafe member in your area can recommend a repair person.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

  11. #11
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help Identifying an Old Kay Mandolin

    White or faux pearl are pretty much your choice other than these.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

  12. #12

    Default Re: Help Identifying an Old Kay Mandolin

    I found some really inexpensive ones on eBay with black buttons for around $8. I am thinking of taking a chance. The description shows 25 mm between pegs but it says approximate in the description. The brand is called BQLZR. It says they are standard.

    Also what do you think about the mandolin finish? Do you think it is original. Many stated they thought it had been refinished. My husband thinks the mandolin was broken early on because the body is in immaculate condition. Hardly looks played. I would love to know but never will.
    Last edited by Maudiebell; Feb-08-2017 at 9:05am. Reason: url didn't work.

  13. #13
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help Identifying an Old Kay Mandolin

    Without having it in hand it would be hard to say for sure, it looks like a refinished instrument. There are some odd sized mandolin tuners out there. If they are slightly off they will be impossible to turn.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Help Identifying an Old Kay Mandolin

    Speaking of old mando's; Can anyone ID this one:Click image for larger version. 

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  15. #15
    Registered User Bill Snyder's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help Identifying an Old Kay Mandolin

    Why would you put this instrument in this thread? Start a new thread for it.
    Bill Snyder

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Help Identifying an Old Kay Mandolin

    Sorry

  17. #17

    Default Re: Help Identifying an Old Kay Mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by luthierseye View Post
    Speaking of old mando's; Can anyone ID this one:Click image for larger version. 

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    Appears to be a Beltone. Yours is labeled Medalist. They were made by Regal and also marketed as Blue Comet and other names. Search Beltone on the Cafe and you will find a bunch of threads.

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  19. #18
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    Default Re: Help Identifying an Old Kay Mandolin

    I would not spend $8 for tuners on ebay if you want to play it. They will most likely be hard to turn and not work well. If you just want it to look good you can replace the buttons on the original tuners, or have it done.
    THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!

  20. #19
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help Identifying an Old Kay Mandolin

    This is not s high-end mandolin. I would think these Gotoh tuners would be more than adequate to make it playable: Gotoh A-Style Mandolin Tuners, Nickel Finish. 29/32" = 23mm. Possibly you may be able to swap the old ones out for these and not even have to drill new holes.
    Jim

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  21. #20
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help Identifying an Old Kay Mandolin

    The OP is looking for black buttons.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

  22. #21
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help Identifying an Old Kay Mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeEdgerton View Post
    It was probably built by Kay in Chicago. It looks like a Kay product but the logo isn't right.
    Looks like the same logo as on this guitar from Jake Wildwood's site. He says circa 1940. Also a florentine "footstock" with the same logo with some added lines — that one I have seen a fair amount. The seller who had that one says circa 1939.

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    I did a quick look through some of my catalogs (including a 1930 Continental Music one) and could not find any Kay with that shape headstock. Strange.
    Last edited by Jim Garber; Feb-09-2017 at 9:41pm.
    Jim

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  23. #22
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help Identifying an Old Kay Mandolin

    There were a few very odd guitars from that date with a similar finish. Who would fake a Kay?
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

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