set-up on an old gibson

[mandovance]

howdy gang! i just bought my first mandolin, a 1919 A4. it's in pretty great shape cosmetically but the set-up was awful. i bought it online so that's what i get. i started moving the bridge back little by little and now i've reached the point where i have moved it back a full bridge-width from where it was. it must have been there for a long time because there is a pretty significant impression in the top where it was, which is now completely exposed. the action is much better and the intonation is solid on the 5th fret and acceptable on the 7th fret but it is still pretty sharp on the 12th. so my question is "is there a limit to how far back you should put the bridge?" i could keep going until i get it sounding right at the 12th but i feel like it's going to be at least another entire bridge width back from the original spot. at some point couldn't that crack the top? at some point doesn't that indicate a problem other than the bridge location? the neck looks straight to me and the frets look level but i don't have any tools. i appreciate y'all's advice.

[Joe Mendel]

Check fret placement, a lot of those old Gibsons had frets that were not correctly spaced. I put a new fingerboard on one, it made all the difference in the world. The old fb wasn't even close, some frets were sharp, some flat and a few were in tune. There were marks all over the top from decades of people trying to get it to play in tune. It was a sweet mandolin with the new fb.

[Marty Jacobson]

You don't need to worry about damaging the top due to the placement of the bridge. The bridge was probably further off than you expected, which is not too uncommon. I put the G and E strings on, one of each, and then find the correct intonation for them without worrying about where the bridge was originally. If it's where it was originally, then fine and dandy. If not, then having the instrument sound like a mandolin is more important than the old impression on the top from the bridge's incorrect placement.

[pops1]

I had a few old Gibson's where the first fret to nut spacing was too short, it was the same as the first fret to second fret. Put a shim in front of the nut and it plays wonderfully in tune all the way up the neck. Move the bridge first, if it has problems still measure the first two fret spacing.

[Tobin]

Where the bridge used to be doesn't matter. All that matters is where it should be. Keep moving it until intonation is best.

[Mandoplumb]

This discussion brings up a question I've had since hearing that a lot of these old Gibson's frets were off. Didn't the original owners have the problem getting them to tune? I know we laugh at the low prices of these mandolins at that time but they were one of the most expensive mandolins at the time. Why didn't people of that time demand that the problem be corrected? If Gibson wouldn't do it why did they still sell so many? Didn't people hear intonation then as now? Enquiring minds want to know.

[MikeEdgerton]

Prior to electronic tuners we all struggled to tune instruments.

[AndyPanda]

Prior to electronic tuners we all struggled to tune instruments.

I always thought stringed instruments sounded better when they were tuned by ear to compensate for the particular quirks in that particular instrument. Back in my day - we carried a tuning fork for one string (or we got an A from the keyboard player) and then tuned the rest of the strings to that one.

[Jeff Mando]

This discussion brings up a question I've had since hearing that a lot of these old Gibson's frets were off. Didn't the original owners have the problem getting them to tune? I know we laugh at the low prices of these mandolins at that time but they were one of the most expensive mandolins at the time. Why didn't people of that time demand that the problem be corrected? If Gibson wouldn't do it why did they still sell so many? Didn't people hear intonation then as now? Enquiring minds want to know.

I think today we have the luxury of being super critical of every aspect of life. Back then, they just went with it.

Remember the 60's Martin guitar pegheads became really rounded on top? People wonder why they changed the shape. Turns out the template just became worn over all those years of use. Weird, but......

[CarlM]

For a sanity check measure the distance from the nut to the 12th fret and the 12th fret to the bridge. They should be similar, the distance to the bridge a couple of millimeters longer. Incorrect fret spacing will mess that up but it should not be hugely far off.

As far as the original fret spacings, they did not have as precise machinery or measuring tools to work with. WWII changed a lot of things in industry as far as having better equipment and more accurate tools. Prior to that there was more handwork and file to fit work even in the metalworking machine shops let alone the woodworking shops.

[pops1]

I could tell my mandolin was off when I played. Didn't need an electronic tuner. A friend said why don't you get a mandolin that plays in tune. This sounded so good I said what ever it takes to make this play in tune it is worth it. I was going to put a new fingerboard on, but shimming the nut was all it took. The store I got it from everyone played it cause it sounded so good. Most likely didn't sell cause it didn't play in tune, but still everyone played it. Well it plays in tune now and has for almost 20 years.

[mandovance]

thanks everyone. i scooted it back a little more and now it's spot on at 5 and 7 but a little flat at 12. that's fine with me - i'm not playing past 7 anyway. for some reason the d course is slightly flat from the first fret, but it's not very noticeable without the tuner. at this point the pin in the end of the pickguard isn't even close to the hole in the bridge. i wonder if that's from 98 years of shrinking? anyway, it plays easily and sounds great, almost like it's got it's own built-in reverb unit!

[fatt-dad]

I had to compensate my nut.

f-d

[Frank Ford]

I've often wondered about the original bridge position on those old Gibsons - it appears as though many, if not most, of them were shipped with the bridge in the measured position, double the distance from nut to 12 fret. It is definitely very common to see a full width scar in front of the bridge when it's moved to the correct compensated position.

[Jeff Mando]

I've often wondered about the original bridge position on those old Gibsons - it appears as though many, if not most, of them were shipped with the bridge in the measured position, double the distance from nut to 12 fret. It is definitely very common to see a full width scar in front of the bridge when it's moved to the correct compensated position.

Would string gauge explain this, that is, were people using something radically different than what we use today?

Or possibly set up for "chording" in the first position? (therefore less critical...)

FWIW, Every picture I've seen of Eddie Cochran and his Gretsch guitar, his bridge is angled at a ridiculous angle, almost humorously so, compared to how everyone today "wears" theirs -- I would say it was in the wrong position, but Eddie was a good enough player to know where it sounded best.