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Thread: Tone/Speed

  1. #1

    Default Tone/Speed

    Hoping that I might be able to get some suggestions. I have been practicing several / fiddle tunes etc. trying to increase my speed with backup tracks . It has been helping . However now if it was mentioned to me by my instructor that my tone was not as good. Shortening the notes instead of the time between them. I am playing slowly trying to improve this, also watching my finger placement. Trying to make sure I pick the string and place the fingers solidly down Any other ideas? Lots of stumbling blocks.
    Thanks in advance!

  2. #2
    Registered User Bob Visentin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tone/Speed

    No short cuts for practice.

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  4. #3

    Default Re: Tone/Speed

    For Me--- and it may not be the same for everybody--- there is a weird phenomenon whereby when I practice a tune with the intent of playing with the smoothest, cleanest fingering, and the most clean and fat tone--with NO THOUGHT to speed... after a few days I am capable of playing that tune pretty darn quickly. I don't know why.

    So you might try concentrating on perfect tone and expression (which are more important than speed, anyway) and find that you are getting some nice speed-chops as a bonus.

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  6. #4

    Default Re: Tone/Speed

    Thank you ! I was wondering if maybe keeping fingers down as long as possible versus lifting fingers more rapidly might be some of the problem?

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    Default Re: Tone/Speed

    Yes, keeping the fingers down and the note resonating as long as possible is optimal. It really helps thing sound smooth and flowing.
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    Default Re: Tone/Speed

    I've been playing for about 50 years. Mostly in bluegrass bands, so speed is always a concern. But when practicing, I think it's really important to practice tunes at a slower pace and train your fingers and body to keep that finger down and let the note stay as long as possible before going to the next one. Do it until you're almost sick of it. Then speed it up. You've got to get it until you're not thinking about it. Playing at fast speeds doesn't allow for thinking about technique, finger memory. Good tone at high speeds requires getting your fingers to where they're kind of working on their own. Your thoughts at that point are free to think about what your going to play.

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    Default Re: Tone/Speed

    Learn the tune, play it clearly and cleanly, learn it so well that you don't have to think about what you are playing ... you just play it. At that point you will be playing it "fast enough" ....... R/
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  13. #8
    harvester of clams Bill McCall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tone/Speed

    But your right hand has to be fast enough. No amount of slow playing will allow a fast right hand.
    May work for the left.

    Sometimes you think the left hand isn't fretting clean, but really the right hand is late in striking the note.
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    Default Re: Tone/Speed

    Lots of good answers here, I think it's hard to make both hands work together at speed. The right hand is ultimately faster than the left can get to new frets. Thinking about and working on making both happen together is important. Fretting the same time the pick strikes and getting to the next note just before the pick strikes. It takes some practice to get the timing down, but the you are off to the races.
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    Default Re: Tone/Speed

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill McCall View Post
    But your right hand has to be fast enough. No amount of slow playing will allow a fast right hand.
    May work for the left.
    Sometimes you think the left hand isn't fretting clean, but really the right hand is late in striking the note.
    Good point. speed is not a left hand accomplishment, neither is it a right hand accomplishment, it takes both hands to tango. They must work smoothly together.

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  19. #11

    Default Re: Tone/Speed

    Thank you to all, Yes it feels like I have a lack of coordination between my hands that I need to work on. My right hand finally feels better when playing and it is time to do more work on my left I guess. I am going to take advice and proceed more slowing getting the tone into the song. I don't desire to be a speed demon but want to be able to play tunes at jam.

  20. #12

    Default Re: Tone/Speed

    One good thing to try is playing (at a medium speed) a tune smoothly, then very short and staccato, then smoothly, etc. Exaggerate the difference, so that you really learn how to control that aspect. Then, when you need to smooth things out, you will know better how to do it.

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  22. #13
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    Default Re: Tone/Speed

    Practice slowly to draw out the best possible tone. Listen to each note as it rings out, and you body will do what is necessary to extract the best possible sound, for the longest time. Only when you can do that confidently, and have the tune fully in "finger memory," should you start speeding up. And as you do so, try not to sacrifice that lovely tone. So keep listening for tone, not speed.

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    Default Re: Tone/Speed

    Another idea is to remember that you can keep some fingers down while adding others, if you understand what I mean. Especially in fiddle tunes where you're in first position and returning to some of the notes in the same measure/phrase, you can keep your one finger on, say, C#, add the next finger to D and then remove it if you're going back to C# ... you don't have to lift every finger up every time to play a note.
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    Default Re: Tone/Speed

    That is a great idea! I will try .thank you!

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    Default Re: Tone/Speed

    Nobody's mentioned my favorite trick for building speed, so I'll chime in.

    Use a metronome in two directions. Start at 80 beats per minute. Play a tune as best you can. Now, roll is back to 60 bpm, really concentrating on the tone quality of each note and on minimizing spaces between. Go back up to 80 bpm, play it through the whole way. You should already notice an improvement. Now, push ahead to 90 bpm. Roll back to 80 bpm. Now up to 100, back to 90, back to 100, up to 110, back down to 90, and keep going. Whenever you hear diminished tone quality, go back to 80 bpm and start over. You'll play fast and clean in no time!
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  29. #17
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    Default Re: Tone/Speed

    I'm 100% self taught & while i knew that some tunes are meant to be played 'fast',i never purposely tried to pay them 'fast',it sort of crept up on me without me thinking about it. I'm sure that it was down to me knowing the melody almost back to front, & the fact that i'd learned where all the 'sounds were' & i could find them without thinking about it. All that is due to the fact that since i retired 9 years back,i've plowed 1000's of hours of practice time into it. There's no substitue for practice however you do it.

    I will say one thing,i don't like any tune played at breakneck speed,even on banjo. After 53 years 'on the hoss',i can rip it up with no problem,but 'too fast' & there's no 'tune' either. I'll repeat once more what Bill Monroe said to me personally back in June 1966 when he & the Boys were over here. I'd asked him a question about who his 'fastest banjo player' had been. I can't remember 'who',but after a few seconds he turned to me & said - ''Son,you go too fast you don't see much scenery''. How very true, & i immediately quit my quest to become the world's fastest (& possibly most tuneless) banjo player right then.

    We've all heard tunes played so fast that they simply become a 'thrash' - i'll pass on that,
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    Default Re: Tone/Speed

    Quote Originally Posted by Amanda Gregg View Post
    Nobody's mentioned my favorite trick for building speed, so I'll chime in.

    Use a metronome in two directions. Start at 80 beats per minute. Play a tune as best you can. Now, roll is back to 60 bpm, really concentrating on the tone quality of each note and on minimizing spaces between. Go back up to 80 bpm, play it through the whole way. You should already notice an improvement. Now, push ahead to 90 bpm. Roll back to 80 bpm. Now up to 100, back to 90, back to 100, up to 110, back down to 90, and keep going. Whenever you hear diminished tone quality, go back to 80 bpm and start over. You'll play fast and clean in no time!
    I like that. Varying the tempo seems to keep my brain from dozing off once I get the notes to memory

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    Default Re: Tone/Speed

    Ivan I agree that most times a player gets so fast that he loses what I call the music of the tune/song. But not always, early Country Gentelmen played ridiculously fast and still sounded musical and listen to Earl on original cut of Rollin In My Sweet Babies Arm. I think the problem is trying to play faster than our ability allows.

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    Default Re: Tone/Speed

    Back in jump school, airborne training JMPI, was always told smooth is fast....

    Good for tone..speed will come
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  36. #21
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    Default Re: Tone/Speed

    Mandoplumb - I agree that some bands can do it 'some of the time' but mostly it sounds just how it is - too fast . I'd also agree that having the ability to play fast ie. Earl Scruggs,is a good thing to have,but use it sparingly. ''Roll In My SWeet Baby's Arms'' is the only song i can remember Flatt & Scruggs playing at that tempo,most of them were slower than that. Even songs such as 'Take Me In A Lifeboat' & 'Little Girl Of Mine In Tennessee',which are pretty fast,are slower & more accessible 'under the fingers' if you'd wish to put a mandolin part in there. Also,to maintain a good tone when playing 'fast' is pretty darned hard. All the effort & concentration is going into the playing,not into maintaining a 'good tone' - IMHO,
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  38. #22
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    Default Re: Tone/Speed

    We play tunes fast for square dances, some of us can play fast and keep the musicality, some can't. In the old time world we smile and play and don't judge. It's nicer if everyone can play up tempo and keep it musical, but hey this is the real world, we are all different and having fun is important too.
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  40. #23

    Default Re: Tone/Speed

    Since I bought a metronome, I've been using it almost all the time. I do not increase speed until I'm happy with note accuracy and tone. I strive for every note to sound as full as the next. You can think you can play something fast, but often you find it is not precise. Either you are lifting off a fret too soon or late, too close or far from the fret, etc. When asked what he liked about the mandolin, Chris Thiele said the precision you need to play it. Truer words were never said.

    I increase three or four beats per minute and repeat the process.
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    Default Re: Tone/Speed

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill McCall View Post
    But your right hand has to be fast enough. No amount of slow playing will allow a fast right hand.
    May work for the left.

    Sometimes you think the left hand isn't fretting clean, but really the right hand is late in striking the note.
    I've wondered about that. I can slow down and play it perfect. As I speed up I can see my fingers going to the right fret and correctly. Thanks!

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