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Thread: Allen tailpiece holes vs. James?

  1. #1

    Default Allen tailpiece holes vs. James?

    I have a used Smart A5 coming my way soon (hooray!) and am thinking about changing out the tailpiece. It currently has an MR-2 model tailpiece attached -- in black which, against the black top, I'm not crazy about. So, I'd like to replace it with either a James "classic" tailpiece or an Allen TR-2 model tailpiece. I was unable to discern this from Randy's website, but does anyone know whether the screw hole spacing is even across different Allen tailpiece models? Or, if the spacing on Allen's are the same as on the James tailpiece? If the current screw holes will accommodate the TR-2 then that's what I'll go with; if re-drilling is required in any case I'll probably splurge for the James.
    ~David Chernack

    2003 Lawrence Smart A5 #145
    2011 Kentucky KM-1000
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    1961 Silvertone 3/4 octave mandolin conversion
    2015 Eastman E20D

  2. #2
    Registered User Pete Braccio's Avatar
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    Default Re: Allen tailpiece holes vs. James?

    From the Allen site, "Holes on the MR-2 model do not match standard pattern", so, no to replacement with the James and, no, they are not consistent across all Allen tailpieces.

    Take a look at the info on Allen's site. It will tell you which tailpieces are standard spacing for screw holes and which are not.

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  4. #3
    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Allen tailpiece holes vs. James?

    Unfortunately,the MR-2 has the ''Monteleone'' style hole pattern which won't match the TR-2 or James tailpiece - unless you do a plug & re-drilling job on it. But - I'm sure that one Cafe member had Bill James make him a tailpiece with a Monte.hole pattern.

    E-mail Bill James & ask him about it. For what it's worth,both my Weber & Lebeda have Monte. pattern holes in them,that why they're not sporting either an Allen or James tailpiece - apart from the cost of importing from the USA.
    Ivan
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Lebeda vs Standard tailpiece footprint E.jpg 
Views:	132 
Size:	78.9 KB 
ID:	153997 The t/piece on the left is a 'Monte' pattern Lebeda t/piece.The one on the right is the 'standard' Gibson pattern.
    Weber F-5 'Fern'.
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  6. #4
    Registered User G7MOF's Avatar
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    Default Re: Allen tailpiece holes vs. James?

    Could you not cut a Gibson style blank from brass and lay it underneath to cover the holes already there. You would then have to re drill to the new tailpiece pattern through from the new tailpiece of your choice?
    I never fail at anything, I just succeed at doing things that never work....


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  7. #5

    Default Re: Allen tailpiece holes vs. James?

    Thanks for the replies! Since Lawrence usually puts James tailpieces on his instruments, I figure there might be a chance that the holes for a James tailpiece already exist. If not, I guess getting a James tailpiece custom could work. G7MOF, I had a feeling that would cover it just fine... I have a feeling either way I won't have to plug any of the screw holes.
    ~David Chernack

    2003 Lawrence Smart A5 #145
    2011 Kentucky KM-1000
    2010 Kentucky KM-150
    1961 Silvertone 3/4 octave mandolin conversion
    2015 Eastman E20D

  8. #6
    coprolite mandroid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Allen tailpiece holes vs. James?

    Yea, the follow up Question is; 'Which Allen TP do you have in mind?', as they offer Several designs...
    Appears TR series, as shown in linked post, 2, are the Gibson pattern models, MR are not.



    my Lebeda >to> James swap was accomplished by Glued in Plugging and re-drilling, the end block.

    All of which is unseen once the James TP was installed...

    I'm seeing Gibson, stock, (TR?) ,and James are similar.. hole specs.. but have not measured..

    [2 Gibsons and 2 James TP, on 4 different mandolins]



    Last edited by mandroid; Feb-15-2017 at 1:17pm.
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    Default Re: Allen tailpiece holes vs. James?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan Kelsall View Post
    Unfortunately,the MR-2 has the ''Monteleone'' style hole pattern which won't match the TR-2 or James tailpiece - unless you do a plug & re-drilling job on it. But - I'm sure that one Cafe member had Bill James make him a tailpiece with a Monte.hole pattern.

    E-mail Bill James & ask him about it. For what it's worth,both my Weber & Lebeda have Monte. pattern holes in them,that why they're not sporting either an Allen or James tailpiece - apart from the cost of importing from the USA.
    Ivan
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Lebeda vs Standard tailpiece footprint E.jpg 
Views:	132 
Size:	78.9 KB 
ID:	153997 The t/piece on the left is a 'Monte' pattern Lebeda t/piece.The one on the right is the 'standard' Gibson pattern.
    Ivan,
    I put a James on my Yellowstone, all I had to do was open the upper left hole slightly to make it fit. I used a small jewelers round file.

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  11. #8
    Registered User Marc Berman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Allen tailpiece holes vs. James?

    Quote Originally Posted by dchernack View Post
    Thanks for the replies! Since Lawrence usually puts James tailpieces on his instruments, I figure there might be a chance that the holes for a James tailpiece already exist. If not, I guess getting a James tailpiece custom could work. G7MOF, I had a feeling that would cover it just fine... I have a feeling either way I won't have to plug any of the screw holes.
    Hey David,

    Lawrence now uses James tailpieces but he used to use the Allen MR-2. Wayne's A and his F5 are both Allen. If you don't mind the Allen you can always go with a silver Allen. Other wise you're going to have to drill new holes.
    Marc B.

  12. #9
    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Allen tailpiece holes vs. James?

    Hi George - Unfortunately,i don't have a 'Gibson standard' hole pattern t/piece to compare the Weber t/piece with directly,so i'm not about to spend £145 UK ($181 US) importing a James t/piece only to find that it won't fit. I could however,do a bit of digging around to find the spacings - so many thanks for your info. I will say,that i haven't directly compared the Weber hole pattern with the Lebeda one,so they might not be exactly the same.
    It did always puzzle me as to why Bruce Weber decided on a non-standard t/piece to begin with ?,

    Ivan
    Weber F-5 'Fern'.
    Lebeda F-5 "Special".
    Stelling Bellflower BANJO
    Tokai - 'Tele-alike'.
    Ellis DeLuxe "A" style.

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  14. #10
    Oscar Stern s11141827's Avatar
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    Default Re: Allen tailpiece holes vs. James?

    Quote Originally Posted by mandroid View Post
    Yea, the follow up Question is; 'Which Allen TP do you have in mind?', as they offer Several designs...
    Appears TR series, as shown in linked post, 2, are the Gibson pattern models, MR are not.



    my Lebeda >to> James swap was accomplished by Glued in Plugging and re-drilling, the end block.

    All of which is unseen once the James TP was installed...

    I'm seeing Gibson, stock, (TR?) ,and James are similar.. hole specs.. but have not measured..

    [2 Gibsons and 2 James TP, on 4 different mandolins]



    They would have to make a special version that's meant for these Mandolins

  15. #11
    Oscar Stern s11141827's Avatar
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    Default Re: Allen tailpiece holes vs. James?

    The Allen TR series of Tailpieces should help

  16. #12
    Oscar Stern s11141827's Avatar
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    Default Re: Allen tailpiece holes vs. James?

    An Allen TR2 would be good cause it matches the gibson pattern, there is a special tailpiece that matches it which you could find

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