eBay buyer and goods not received

[pheffernan]

It seems to me if you are not in the business of selling objects to people, and you have an instrument you want to move along, it is MUCH easier to put it on consignment at a local busy music store. Perhaps you don't end up with quite as much money, and you have to be patient, but also you don't worry or hassle. Worth it IMO.

Spoken like a man who rarely sells an instrument.

[Folkmusician.com]

I don't think I'll buy anything else that has to be shipped. At least if in person I know when it's mine and any dispute can be settled the old-fashion way if I can reach his nose.

Over my career as a merchant (20 years now), I have read through the laws a few times, and I also see where the general public has very little knowledge of the actual laws. I would be clueless if not for being in the business and researching it. Given that problems are almost always resolved on their own, there is little need for the average person that buys and sells a few instrument to be overly concerned with it.

But here it is:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/ucc/2

It pretty well covers everything and is not weighted toward the consumer. Keep in mind, that dealers are usually in various contracts that limit their rights under the UCC. These being the venues we sell, method of payments, etc... Our contracts with these channels and services override some of our rights under the UCC.

[Stephen Perry]

The problem some people face with selling a few instruments is that, should my client be benefited by it, I may portray that individual as a merchant, which might work, and bring the UCC into the equation. So even selling a few instruments in a year may expose one to being subjected to the UCC. Or in any instance, being forced to defeat a claim under the UCC. Anyone who doesn't really know what they're doing might want to tread cautiously into the domain of more than a few (very few) casual sales.

People are easy to get along with until something goes sideways, and then the law finds a way. Best to be clear up front.

[Petrus]

Thanks for the thorough (if sobering!) legal-eagle info, S.P. I'm a little paranoid now, but I suppose forewarned is forearmed or something.

[Stephen Perry]

Petrus, exactly. There are short descriptions, flow charts and such. Some deals have to be in writing that's signed, but there are lots of ways to sign things these days, including electronic. It's pretty intuitive in retrospect and hangs together well, with lots of side issues. The risk of loss aspect gives the most confusion. What makes a contract is also somewhat iffy for folks who think they have to be in writing, what that writing might consist of, etc. Then there are duties upon imperfect delivery of the goods and remedies that make sense, in retrospect, but can prove quite alarming. So a run though on a winter afternoon can later trigger "Hey, I remember seeing that" and then "Woah! I'm setting myself up for some hurt!"

And ANY small business should have a friendly local business attorney available. A $25 6 minute phone call can save 1000s.

[Jeff Mando]

A $25 6 minute phone call can save 1000s.

Hey, that's $250 an hour! I might have to give up my job as a paid protester and check out this law racket!

[Stephen Perry]

Jeff, go ahead. 3 years of hard work, a nice little pop quiz, continuing legal education, malpractice insurance, suits, and the joy of dealing with upset people who learned everything they think they need to know about the judicial system from Judge Judy and Law and Order. Fun stuff! Lots of overhead expenses in addition.

I'm serious about people learning something about this. A nolo book on contracts should be in every small business.

[Petrus]

Not to get too far off track, but though I understand the need to have codified contract laws and that they can't help but become very detailed and cumbersome over time (details seem to accrete like barnacles over the years as new situations arise), I get very cynical about the way corporations find ways to skew the playing field in their benefit by requiring "binding arbitration" in so many cases before you can access a service, get credit, a job, apartment, or what-not.

They portray this as a way to save time and expense for all parties but they don't reveal that the arbitrators work (essentially if not in fact) for the party with the deep pockets and statistically, disputes end up being found in favor of these entities in the vast majority of cases because the "little guy" (tm) has neither the experience, money, nor time to invest in properly fighting a case.

[Stephen Perry]

The contract laws aren't actually very cumbersome compared to not having a standard set. Disputes are actually rare, there are just so many contracts that they do arise.

Arbitration is part of the contract. Don't enter into a contract if you don't like the clauses in it, or negotiate them away. I have an arbitration issue at the moment I think I can sneak around, but it's still a little iffy.

[Timbofood]

I'll drive to the store, 2 hours, put my pants back on before I get out of the car, spend an hour diddling about in the store, pay cash, back to the car, remove pants, two hours home and be content. No contracts, no mail, no delivered next door, no lost in shipment, not blindly disappointed in a poor choice. If it's wrong, I have no one to blame but myself. I'm a simple man, driven by my stomach mostly.

[Stephen Perry]

Ah, but Timbo, there is indeed a contract!

[Folkmusician.com]

And that whole hassle of having to put on pants. Who wants to deal with that!

[Kevin Stueve]

Ah, but Timbo, there is indeed a contract!

darn I was getting ready to show off my faint remembrance of my college bus law course. Offer, Acceptance, consideration -- sounds like a contract to me

[Kevin Stueve]

And that whole hassle of having to put on pants. Who wants to deal with that!

so there is a marketing gimmick for you -- Now introducing pantless thursdays at Folk Musican

[Jeff Mando]

Timbo, you sound like the Maestro from Seinfeld! Don't want to lose your crease!

[Timbofood]

Yes, the contract does exist, as do the pants. Damn! You might say it was a pocket contract which has been fulfilled?

[MC16]

OP - has this been settled? How did t work out?

[Petrus]

Yep, settled amicably!

[Bill Cameron]

I'll drive to the store, 2 hours, put my pants back on before I get out of the car, spend an hour diddling about in the store, pay cash, back to the car, remove pants, two hours home and be content. No contracts, no mail, no delivered next door, no lost in shipment, not blindly disappointed in a poor choice. If it's wrong, I have no one to blame but myself. I'm a simple man, driven by my stomach mostly.

What ye need is a good kilt, lad.

[Timbofood]

What ye need is a good kilt, lad.

Aye, and I should be wearin' it "True!"

I actually inherited my fathers kilt, he was almost a foot shorter than I am so, the fit is a little "spare" length wise. God forbid I get caught outside in a wind gust!

[brunello97]

What ye need is a good kilt, lad.

Utilikilts.com

Mick

[Timbofood]

Mick, you have such an interesting perspective!

[Tobin]

Aye, and I should be wearin' it "True!"

I actually inherited my fathers kilt, he was almost a foot shorter than I am so, the fit is a little "spare" length wise. God forbid I get caught outside in a wind gust!

Kilts? Y'all are speaking my language now! While I'm not an "everyday" kilt wearer, I have numerous kilts for all occasions (clan gatherings, Highland Games, hiking, etc.). I must admit, nothing's more comfortable for long drives.