Mandola vs Octave Mandolin: Help?

[mandoglobal]

Hey All -
Been playing mandolin for about 25 yrs. Always wanted to try the lower range, finally ready to purchase something, and while I know the technical differences between the two instruments (tuning, etc) I just don't know much about the differences betweeen Mandola and Octave Mando in terms of playability, functionality, etc. Need some guidance here.....found an awesome Weber Yellowstone Mandola for about 4500 that I'm close to making a decision on, but wondering if an Octave would be a better choice. Seem hard to come by...Probably need to play each type of instrument first....,kinda obvious I guess. But please, give me your thoughts. Thank you so much!

[Wesley Turner]

What type of music do you play?

[zoukboy]

The thing with the mandola is the keys that are easily available if you are playing fiddle tune-based music. You can retune (and many "Celtic" players do), but if you want to keep it in CGDA then certain very common fiddle tune keys are going to be less accessible. The attractive thing about an octave mandolin is you already know the tuning and can transfer (with a little practice) repertoire from the mandolin. Also, with an octave mando if you want to explore Irish bouzouki tuning then all you have to do is drop the E strings to D. It won't have the bouzouki sound but it will let you explore a fantastic "half open" tuning (as I refer to it).

[zoukboy]

And I should add that ADAD and GDGD are also great tunings on octave mando.

[mandoglobal]

All blugrass, but open to other stuff with a Mandola or Octave in hand.

[jtv]

The key thing is definitely something to keep in mind. I had a similar pondering, but between octave mandolin and mandocello. Ended up with the cello and love the sound, but it's definitely more work to find/adapt music for.

[mandoglobal]

The thing with the mandola is the keys that are easily available if you are playing fiddle tune-based music. You can retune (and many "Celtic" players do), but if you want to keep it in CGDA then certain very common fiddle tune keys are going to be less accessible. The attractive thing about an octave mandolin is you already know the tuning and can transfer (with a little practice) repertoire from the mandolin. Also, with an octave mando if you want to explore Irish bouzouki tuning then all you have to do is drop the E strings to D. It won't have the bouzouki sound but it will let you explore a fantastic "half open" tuning (as I refer to it).

So, when you say "You can retune...." are you talking about tuning a mandola to GDAE? If so, different strings?

Leaning now towards Octave Mandos, but having a hell of a time finding one (F style, top builder, at about $4K - $5K, etc.)

[fox]

If you want a archtop octave, then yes your choices are limited but, if you would like flat top then there are lots to choose from.
How about a short scale octave of around 21" scale?

[mandoglobal]

Well, Fox, I'm not sure what you mean by short scale. I'm discovering that I have a lot to learn.

I will make the trip to visit your island home to do some research. lol

[mandobassman]

Well, Fox, I'm not sure what you mean by short scale. I'm discovering that I have a lot to learn.

I will make the trip to visit your island home to do some research. lol

Mandola's are usually between 17" and 19" scale length. Octave mandolins are usually between 20" and maybe 23" scale length. There are variations to this but these are the general sizes. So, when some speaks of a "short scale", they're referring to one that is closer to the 20" or 21" end of the range. My octave, which was converted from a small body guitar, is 22-1/2" scale length, on the longer end of the range.

[Wesley Turner]

All blugrass, but open to other stuff with a Mandola or Octave in hand.

Ok, in reading this...and other comments you have made... I say 100% get an octave mandolin in about a 22" or 23"(max) scale. If you have never owned an octave, you need one. After that, maybe you want to journey down the mandola road. The tone and key of the octave is what it sounds like you are really looking for. My 2 cents. If you are not stuck on F holes, there are excellent carved top builders that could get you something in the 3-4K range. Lawrence nyberg for example. phil crump does a great oval hole flat top octave that I think you would be hard pressed to dislike in any way. Best of luck.

[fox]

I prefer 20" scale for melody and longer scale 23" for chords but that is just me.
I also prefer GDAE and that can be tricky to get on 17" scale.
I have medium size hands but I have found over the years that a 21" scale is a great compromise but, not alll folk find it difficult to play 23" scales.
Possibly 90% of tenor banjos have 23" scales and I know lots of folk who plays them very fast and acccurate!

[acousticphd]

There have been several past discussions here on this or similar subjects (eg, just the question of how to approach the mandola vs. mandolin), that you might be interested in looking up.

I'm all for the OM (and have one), but I use the mandola much more, and I’ll plug it (mandola) because I think it can actually be more versatile ensemble voice.

View number 1 (vs the mandolin) is:
It's a completely different tuning (CGDA), so it will will alter all your fingerings of your familiar tunes, etc.

View number 2 which I strongly encourage is:
No it won't. Why would it? It’s tuned the same, except for one string.

If you are reasonably comfortable on mandolin in common keys like A, D, G, C (and related minors), the mandola will probably come pretty easily. You are already playing 3/4 of the mandola (GDA courses) when you play mandolin. The key is to become accustomed to doing without the E course, and expanding your common scale (and chord) fingerings down to include the lower (C) course, that you would already be using if the mandolin had 5 courses instead of 4.

The easiest bridge to mandola fluency I can suggest is to make a habit of incorporating the low(est) possible melody register into every tune in your repertoire. Take for example, "Waiting for the Feds" or "Big Sciota" (in G) and Old Joe Clark (in A), and learn the melodies in the low mando registers, if you haven’t already.

This approach won't work for every tune; for others it will require some melody substitutions/compromises, but for quite a few it is possible (and a good exercise). What it helps familiarize are the scale positions in each key that we tend to use less because they fall outside of the usual melody range.

Melodies in F, C, G, and D fall easily onto the mandola, as you would expect. Dm works great, Am is OK. A maj and E maj become more of a stretch, but incorporating a capo at just one position (2nd fret) provides alternative finger positions and chord shapes for these keys. All the Am and Amod tunes work great with a capo at the 2nd.

There is no reason to copy BG mando technique to mandola, any more than to OM. This just tends to smother the mandola resonance. I never use 4-finger chordings, and rarely even 3.

As far as instrument choices, you are definitely talking about heavy cream-of-the-crop options. Might be good to find one to borrow for a few sessions before deciding!

[mandoglobal]

I'm right there with you.....focus will be on the OM, then Mandola. Now to gather up some cash. I'm gonna sell my Flatiron Festival F (built in 93), but that will just get my funding started.....hmm, what else do I have lying around....

[fatt-dad]

Tim O'Brian bought an OM. A nice one. . .

f-d

[arturo7]

The octave is an awesome instrument if you want to do accompany yourself while singing. The lower register allows for bass notes on the 1 & 3, with chords on the 2 & 4.

[Mandobart]

As is often pointed out, an OM can be a 'dola by capoing on the 5th fret. You can't really make a mandola into an OM without new strings.

[zedmando]

Played an Octave mandolin today--wasn't sure at the store if that's what it was or if it was a mandola--so came here to investigate & based on scale I would say it was an octave mandolin.
Now I have new GAS.
I played a couple of things I came up with on a mandolin and it just felt so natural du to being used to playign guitar--so whole it is still smaller than my guitars, it felt cool.

Although I won't be giving up on mandolin--still enjoying that & of course there is the sound & pitch of a mandolin.
So just one more thing for my mental GAS list

[zoukboy]

So, when you say "You can retune...." are you talking about tuning a mandola to GDAE? If so, different strings?

Meaning raising the mandola tuning to DAEA or DAEB so that the usual keys for Irish/Scots music are easily accessible. This usually require re-stringing. Putting a mandola down in octave mandolin tuning is next to impossible unless it is a longer scale instrument, in the 19-20" scale range (and yes, that requires re-stringing, too).

[Torinsall]

If you haven't already bought a mandola or octave mando, you might consider trying a baritone ukulele and tuning it like an octave mandolin. The scale length is shorter than octave mando and you get to keep gdae tuning. Mine has 2 classical guitar strings and 2 baritone uke strings...the combination of strings was worked out by the uke shop so the tensions would be ok. If you are interested, I'd be happy to post the details.

[WoodyCTA102]

I have both. My mandola is my nicest instrument by far, sounds and plays great. But prefer the lower register of the octave. It's really a 24" scale Bouzouki, but pretty much the same thing. I've had a few octaves too.

In fact, I sold the octaves figuring a mandola was all I really needed, but didn't turn out that way. So, just recently picked up the Bouzouki, and really like it. I do prefer the mandola to my mandolin, I just like lower/fuller sounds.

[chuck3]

Mandola and OM are both great instruments. I don't gig with them (so far) because you get into the guitarist's frequency range and mandolin is preferable since it's above that range. But for playing solo, both are great.

A note on the mandola - I don't agree that the different tuning makes it harder to play. It's tuned the same way (in 5ths), it's just C-G-D-A rather than G-D-A-E. So all the fingerings are the same, you just have to transpose in your head if you want to stay in the same key. That comes easily to me most of the time. But also - if you're singing and have a somewhat lower voice, which is true for me, you can just play the song as you would on mandolin and it will be a fifth lower. Win-win.