F4 vs F5; or, how do you like your oval holes?

[David Lewis]

Have a Washburn M1SLD. Needs a fret job but is lovely and an Epiphone mm40L which I think is a special instrument.

[Br1ck]

Love my Collings MTO

Every MTO I've ever played was a lovely engaging instrument. Once Played one in cream that left me salivating.

[mandroid]

I like my 1922 A4, (F4 minus some blocks of wood, & several thousand dollars) enough
since I got it that it is in a repair queue waiting for a refret.

[MikeZito]

Have a Washburn M1SLD. Needs a fret job but is lovely and an Epiphone mm40L which I think is a special instrument.

My M1SDL is also a nice instrument - a great player. It is also nice to hear some words about the Epi MM40L - even after all this time, I still see very little first-hand information on the internet. Thanks!

[George Henry]

I've got two oval hole As. One is Lafferty LA-2 which has such modern appointments as the long neck, radiused board, and an elevated fretboard. The tone is still A-ish but edgy to a certain extent. My other is a Breedlove Premier 00. It too has the modern neck, radius, and elevated extension. The tone on this is sweeter softer, and has a delicate reverb quality. I use the Lafferty when I need more edge and cut, and the Breedlove when I am after sweetness.

I am awaiting a 1921 Gibson A. I haven't seen or heard it yet. I'll know tomorrow.

[Jim Garber]

I just saw this Red Diamond A Oval on the Carter Vintage site. I am sure that is sounds wonderful. I assume it is a hybrid with a longer neck. Doesn't it look a bit odd with that soundhole so high on the top?

[Charles E.]

I agree Jim, that just looks wrong.

[Charles E.]

This however looks just right.........

https://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/121420#121420

If I only had the coin.

NFI

[Dacraw54]

I had a Red Diamond A4 a few years ago - looks the same:

[Jim Garber]

This however looks just right.........

https://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/121420#121420

If I only had the coin.

NFI

Agree 100%.

[Verne Andru]

Doesn't it look a bit odd with that soundhole so high on the top?

I had a Red Diamond A4 a few years ago - looks the same:

https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/a...9&d=1523323232

Can't figure out how to display Dacraw54's Red Diamond for a side-by-side but the difference seems to be in the visual impact the Rosette makes. Soundholes appear to be in the same spots.

As an aside, I have 12-fret and 14-fret mandolins and it's interesting that the 2 frets do make a noticeable playing difference. I prefer the 12 and feel like I'm really reaching when I pick up my 14.

[MikeZito]

Can't figure out how to display Dacraw54's Red Diamond for a side-by-side but the difference seems to be in the visual impact the Rosette makes. Soundholes appear to be in the same spots.

Here is the side-by-side . . . and it looks like Verne is right about the rosette.

[QCS]

I have one of each. My F5 is a BRW blacktop. My F4 is a Pomeroy. While i really like the sound I get out of the F5, the Pomeroy has become my daily player. I just prefer the full, balanced tone I get with it. Perfect for what I call "kitchen picking' and singing". More people ask to play the F4 than the 5, go figure.

[jimmy powells]

I go through phases where I like the looks of my F4 better than my F5. Once you stare at an F4 long enough, it just looks "right" and the F5 looks strange. But then I swing back to the F5.

I do admit, though, that I always prefer my F5 sound over the F4.

Hi Tobin. I feel the same. I've always thought that a Gibson F4 with that rope rosette adding to it is the best looking mandolin of all. 1917 to early 1918 when they first started sunburst as opposed to just shaded top like thr 1915 and 1916 ones and they still had Handel tuner buttons.

I have to say the F5 always 'does the job' when playing with other instruments but the F4 played at home is a joy.

I'm just thinking of having one made as the Gibson ones are now very expensive. I know someone who can do a beautiful. F4. I've had 7 Gibson F4s over the years but always sold them for various reasons.

regards

Jimmy
UK

[yankees1]

For Bluegrass and double stops I still prefer an A5 or F5 but just sitting around the house playing old time, Celtic or anything with no double stops I prefer an oval ! I have a Girouard F4 on order to be born late 2019 ! My Girouard A oval is lonely !

[RustyMadd]

It's just my theory but I think there might be some truth to it, so here it is...

There's an eccentricity in the roundness of the Florentine mandolins that is on the same axis as the neck. When you look at an F5 the F-holes reinforce that eccentricity or imbalance by flowing on a parallel axis. Whereas the oval-hole of most F4s counterbalances the existing eccentricity by orienting the hole's eccentric axis at a right angle, thereby increasing balance.

oh well, maybe I'll just stick to pickin'
Blessings

[kurth83]

I only just started learning about oval holes due to a recent interest in classical music for the mando.

I bought an Eastman MD604 to start. And I have warmed to it, took a while to learn to play it properly for the sound it makes. At this point, I find I prefer it's darker sound to the F-hole, it has a lot more low end. But in a bluegrass jam it wouldn't cut through, so the F-Hole is for that.

FYI I played on a bunch of oval holes at Gryphon recently and the (owner?) gave me the talk (and let me play) MTO's and F4's. He said they are hybrids, with body shapes and neck/fingerboards closer to an F-hole, but an oval hole top. This gives them a sound somewhere in-between a traditional oval hole design (such as the Eastman), and a traditional F-hole.

They were beautiful instruments and you could hear that they were exactly what he said they were.

I for one was wanting something for classical music, so the darker more-sustained sound of a traditional oval-hole comes closer for me.

My next little experiment is with a flat-top oval-hole pancake (from Red Valley), which are supposed to have even more sustain (and less punch). Flat-tops are relatively inexpensive, so easier to play around there with custom builds too (nut width and neck).

Eventually there may be a bowlback (expensive) in my future, but I need to finish learning exactly what I like in an instrument first as it will likely be special ordered from somewhere in europe.

[Jack Roberts]

The best money I ever spent in my life was a wedding ring for my wife. Second best was my F

[Joey Anchors]

I love Oval-Holes as I play jazz and blues. Love the shorter neck and everything about them

[yankees1]

I love ovals but longer necks !

[mandroid]

A4, Wood, 92 years old & A5. Carbon fiber not that old... Both got refretted in last 2 years ..

[Mike Martin]

I tried this Pava A4 out yesterday. Gorgeous sound and appearance, the pics don't do it justice. Someone please buy it before I dip into my kid's college fund. Different flavor than my A5, as you A4 afficiandos would expect, it has me reconsidering the need for just one mandolin. NFI

https://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/131954#131954

And speaking of gorgeous, also in the classifieds:

https://themusicemporium.com/mandoli...ney-amber.7268

I think I may have a problem.

[Hendrik Ahrend]

Here are two pics of my 1923 F4 and 1924 F5; I love them both, although the F4 does look particularly nice IMHO.

[seankeegan]

I prefer ovals. As does Santa





Merry Christmas to all.

[Verne Andru]

I prefer ovals. As does Santa





Merry Christmas to all.

Nice. How well do you find the GK pickup works on that mando second from the right?