Self taught practice

[UsuallyPickin]

Well .... warm up on FFcP scales and Dom7 arpeggios played in the groups that they work in .. ie by key. Work on a tune or song you are learning for fifteen minutes or so. Lastly play some things you know for the remainder of the hour keeping an eye on your technique and an ear out for some improvisations to add . R/

[Bill McCall]

Warning against too much structure:

I went through this years ago. I set up for myself, from the best advice, a practice regime that included exercises, new tunes, old tunes, chord work, right hand work, all in timed segments. It became a task list. And while I have average discipline and got to it about as often as I prescribed for myself, I noticed myself looking at the clock, and treading water to get through the prescription.

If you can get behind your instrument for an hour a day every day, you are wayyyyy ahead of a whole lot of folks, what ever you spend that hour doing. So lets start there.

I guess it depends on how you enjoy your playing. Taking things in many 30 minute bites each day, I enjoy gathering a little bit more facility so that any tune I work on comes easier, even the improvisational breaks in swing and bluegrass, as I expand my toolbox, if not my repetoire. If structure brings goals into focus, so much the better.

The first thing is to develop the habit of practice, then decide which components work best for you.

Like anything, YMMV.

[JeffD]

The first thing is to develop the habit of practice, then decide which components work best for you.
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I think you hit on something very important here. Step One: Get into the habit of getting behind the mandolin every day, so much so that a day without it feels funny and you get restless. I gather the OP has done this but for everyone else, this is a great first step.

Everything else is the details. Not to say they are unimportant, but compared to step one they are down down the list.

[JeffD]

Since your question is general, the answer must be too. You need to deliberately practice skills that will move you toward your musical goal.

Nothing here I disagree with, in any way. I just don't think most mandolinners could identify their goal in one or two sentences. Not specific goals towards which progress is objectively verifiable.

OK maybe short term goals, like be able to play this tune at a jam, or be ready for next weeks gig. But longer term goals are a bit dicey.

I don't like "constant improvement" as a goal because it doesn't mean much. And doesn't drive our actions. I mean, I of course want to constantly improve, at everything. So... now what?

I have a pretty clear idea of my own goal, having wrestled with it to varying degrees of seriousness for a while. And it directs just about everything I work on or practice. More importantly, it makes certain tasks and practice objectives irrelevant (to me). So I don't obsess over not working on anything if I can't clearly identify how it furthers my goal.

My goal, for me, only for me, and not suggesting that it be anyone else's goal. Here.

[Mark Wilson]

OK maybe short term goals, like be able to play this tune at a jam, or be ready for next weeks gig. But longer term goals are a bit dicey.

I don't like "constant improvement" as a goal because it doesn't mean much. And doesn't drive our actions. I mean, I of course want to constantly improve, at everything. So... now what?

Sounds jaded but it's interesting to hear another side of it. I respect it.

I believe I'm a tick better than I was last week and that's been a constant since I started. My long term goal is to play more than I practice and to play the way I hear it in my head. I haven't figured how get there if I don't have a small goal each time I sit down with it. It's not work or drudgery and I don't have to make myself want to do it. I want to. Getting a little better each week is serious fun for me or I would walk away from it.

But yeah - everyone should go about it the way that they want. And not feel that they have to do more than they want.

[Beanzy]

Nothing here I disagree with, in any way. I just don't think most mandolinners could identify their goal in one or two sentences. Not specific goals towards which progress is objectively verifiable.

OK maybe short term goals, like be able to play this tune at a jam, or be ready for next weeks gig. But longer term goals are a bit dicey.

I don't like "constant improvement" as a goal because it doesn't mean much. And doesn't drive our actions. I mean, I of course want to constantly improve, at everything. So... now what?

This touches on a situation where I think people can often set themselves up for disappointment. Without a picture of what they want to become it can be hard to keep going long term. Even if what we want to be is quite general, such as "the best all-round mandolin player I can be", or a "solid partner for my guitarist friend" there is a starting point to work from. You can work off that to begin to define where you're headed and avoid getting distracted by things which won't help you become the player you want to be. If you can visualise yourself in your ideal playing context, then you're beginning to set out a future towards which all the practice can be directed.

Often people (myself included) don't come to the mandolin with a genre decided upon, we may just want to learn play the instrument when we start out. No particular goals apart from being able to play the funky little instrument that we thought could be interesting. After the initial curiosity and dabbling there can be a vacuum which can leave it feeling a bit aimless. That is the phase where building a clearer image of the ideal future player you want to be can be vital.
People who come to it from an interest in a given genre have an advantage at that point, because there are often defined role models to emulate, and so there are clear attributes that a new player needs to work on to step closer to the ideal. Without a genre to guide progress or a local scene to fit into, it can be difficult for a relatively new player to know what they could be aiming at. Even choosing a mentor can be difficult there as you can't even define who could be the right teacher to guide you.

[JeffD]

People who come to it from an interest in a given genre have an advantage at that point, because there are often defined role models to emulate, and so there are clear attributes that a new player needs to work on to step closer to the ideal. Without a genre to guide progress or a local scene to fit into, it can be difficult for a relatively new player to know what they could be aiming at. .

Absolutely spot on. My experience exactly. I enjoy playing the mandolin more than I enjoy any particular genre I might pursue on the mandolin. And I was playing many years before I recognizably heard a recorded mandolin. I just kind of pursued everything.

If your passion is bluegrass, or classical music, or jazz, or whatever, I can see that a personal long term goal is much, much easier to identify.

[rodarbal]

I actually have found a teacher in Southern California. When I visit there I will pick up a few lessons. Thank You!

[T.D.Nydn]

Myself,,I don't want to waste my time, I practice things that I can immediately use,,if I can't incorporate it right into my playing,,I don't bother..

[JeffD]

Myself,,I don't want to waste my time, I practice things that I can immediately use,,if I can't incorporate it right into my playing,,I don't bother..

I know what you are saying, but it would drive me nuts. The whole reason for making a goal, for me, is to be headed in a direction. There is a lot of stuff that I can immediately incorporate into my playing that I don't work on at all because it doesn't take me in a direction consistent with where I want to go.

[T.D.Nydn]

The direction you want to go is not the direction of your playing ????

[JeffD]

The direction you want to go is not the direction of your playing ????

I direct my playing, it doesn't direct me.

I am a musical magpie, picking up shiny tunes and riffs here and there. Left to my own short term interests I would be working hard, yet wandering around no closer to anything and wondering why.

If my long term goal was to be a contributor in a bluegrass band, I would be wasting my time working hard on modern Finnish fiddle tunes, however much fun that might be (As a ridiculous example.)

If my long term goal was to be able to contribute meaningfully in a classical mandolin ensemble, well working on etudes and scales dtc., would be much more relevant than working on improvisation.

A very real example for me is this: as my goal is to be more fun to play with, I see no point in working on show off tunes, such as Brilliancy, or Rawhide, or Nola, or Tico Tico, whose only point (as far as I can see) is to separate me from other players. They might be fun to learn, especially Nola, but I can't see how it makes me more fun to play music with.

[Bill McCall]

... A very real example for me is this: as my goal is to be more fun to play with, I see no point in working on show off tunes, such as Brilliancy, or Rawhide, or Nola, or Tico Tico, whose only point (as far as I can see) is to separate me from other players.

I agree wholeheartedly with this, since it relates to practice focus. As a jam player, not a performer, I don't want to play tunes or breaks note for note, I want to add my little something to the group, which means learning how to play/improvise. I think that's fun for me and appears to be fun for others as well. If that is showing off, I'm guilty. Playing a tune with a group all playing their learned arrangement isn't fun for me,but I realize many folks like that. And that directs my practice.

Big world, lots of ways to get where you want to go.

[rodarbal]

Thanks Mark, that would be great.

forivers@gmail.com

[sbhikes]

The way I learned was I brought my instrument to the jam and even though I barely knew how to play it and didn't know any of the tunes, I'd play one note, then when the tune came back around again, I nailed that one note. Then the next week I'd try to get 2 notes, then pretty soon I'd get an outline of the tune and gradually over the years I'd fill in more and more of the missing notes, and maybe even add a few chords that I sorta I figured out. After many years, people started saying, hey, you really know how to play that thing. But I was always thinking maybe I need lessons because I don't know what I'm doing. But I guess I do know what I'm doing because it sounds like music and people like it and they are happy to see me when I show up at the jam.

I asked others at the jam if they practice. They scrunched up their faces and said to never utter the "P" word ever again. We don't practice, they said. We just play.

[Jess L.]

... After many years, people started saying, hey, you really know how to play that thing. But I was always thinking maybe I need lessons because I don't know what I'm doing. But I guess I do know what I'm doing because it sounds like music and people like it and they are happy to see me when I show up at the jam.
...

Some of the most awesome musicians I've ever met didn't really know what they were doing either, they just did it, and it worked. Then other people would come along and try to analyze the whys and wherefores.

If one asks such a musician, especially fiddlers, "How did you play that part there, could you play it a little slower so I can hear all the notes," lot of times they have difficulty playing it slow or the notes turn out slightly different.

Fabulous musicians, those, although not so adept at teaching. But that's ok, they're good at what they do, a big part of which is giving the rest of us some inspiration and musical goals to strive for. And we can record them and play it back at half-speed to learn, technology is cool sometimes.

... I asked others at the jam if they practice. They scrunched up their faces and said to never utter the "P" word ever again. We don't practice, they said. We just play.

Yeah I can understand that. Playing *is* the practice.

[JonZ]

The way I learned was I brought my instrument to the jam and even though I barely knew how to play it and didn't know any of the tunes, I'd play one note, then when the tune came back around again, I nailed that one note. Then the next week I'd try to get 2 notes, then pretty soon I'd get an outline of the tune and gradually over the years I'd fill in more and more of the missing notes, and maybe even add a few chords that I sorta I figured out. After many years, people started saying, hey, you really know how to play that thing. But I was always thinking maybe I need lessons because I don't know what I'm doing. But I guess I do know what I'm doing because it sounds like music and people like it and they are happy to see me when I show up at the jam.

I asked others at the jam if they practice. They scrunched up their faces and said to never utter the "P" word ever again. We don't practice, they said. We just play.

I left my local jam for this reason. People didn't practice, and things got really stagnant. I'll stop in once in a while, and folks are all pretty where they were the last time.

[Pete Martin]

Practice and playing are 2 different things.

Practice makes you better

Playing is fun, but eventually if this is all you do, you plateau and dont improve.

We all need to find that balance that works for us.

[AlanN]

Yep to what JonZ and Pete say. A jam can get real old real fast if

- the same tunes are played over and over, with no variation
- the jammers are not open to anything new or different

There's a local one here that falls into this deal. Good food, fellowship, etc., but it's the SOS, music-wise. There's one guy who shows up every time, with his mandolin and his 6-pack. I used to ask him "What tunes have you learned?" and "What do you practice at home?" I don't ask anymore.

I go less and less.

[Drew Egerton]

Yep to what JonZ and Pete say. A jam can get real old real fast if

- the same tunes are played over and over, with no variation
- the jammers are not open to anything new or different

There's a local one here that falls into this deal. Good food, fellowship, etc., but it's the SOS, music-wise. There's one guy who shows up every time, with his mandolin and his 6-pack. I used to ask him "What tunes have you learned?" and "What do you practice at home?" I don't ask anymore.

I go less and less.

Most of the folks at my jam fall into that category, well, minus the 6 pack.

I've gotten to where I will just pick 3 or 4 random songs I never sing and bring them. Sometimes it is a train wreck and sometimes it works out, but at least it's different. This time I did Last Train from Poor Valley, Last Thing on My Mind, Blue Railroad Train and Carolina Star.

[JeffD]

Practice makes you better

Playing is fun, but eventually if this is all you do, you plateau and dont improve.

Wisdom that.

[AlanN]

Most of the folks at my jam fall into that category, well, minus the 6 pack.

I've gotten to where I will just pick 3 or 4 random songs I never sing and bring them. Sometimes it is a train wreck and sometimes it works out, but at least it's different. This time I did Last Train from Poor Valley, Last Thing on My Mind, Blue Railroad Train and Carolina Star.

Good tunes, buddy. LTFPV, Norman Blake tune, as done on Seldom Scene Act II (1973) is simply great, and Duffey's mandolin break is perfect. I try to mimic that every time. Same with Sam's solo on BRT.

If I were to bring those tunes to the jam, it would fall apart, as simple as they are. One time, I asked the banjo man if he knew this tune...proceeded to pick, slowly, the melody to Dixie Hoedown. As simple as it gets. His comment: "Too many notes". I give up.

[bigskygirl]

I would look into taking a few lessons with a professional, decide what style you like and contact them - most do Skype, FaceTime, whatever. It's very affordable considering the talent you are hiring for 30 minutes to an hour.

You don't have to commit to a lifetime of lessons, take a few and see how it goes then check in after awhile, I'm sure most would accommodate this and if they don't find someone else. You will benefit from having someone watch you play and answer ques and guide you in whatever style you want to learn.

[Mark Wilson]

Practice and playing are 2 different things.

Practice makes you better

Playing is fun, but eventually if this is all you do, you plateau and dont improve.

Wisdom that.

+2

[Jess L.]

I don't draw a distinction between "practice" and "play". To me, everything is "play". Let me clarify.

There seems to be some (IMO) misconception by some that to "play" means going into slacker mode, taking the easy way out, sitting there like a robot spewing out some pre-learned time-worn old tunes without thinking or listening, not caring enough to try harder, learning nothing new, doing nothing inventive, taking no 'risks' or chances on trying something new.

Bah!

To me it's completely the opposite.

For me, "play" means, among other things, making an intentional effort to find difficult new tunes and then play the heck out of them until it becomes second nature and all the super-difficult parts have been ironed out, through playing them. Find a recording or MIDI backing track that you like, put it on a loop, and play along with it dozens or hundreds of times (not all in one day!) until you have it figured out. In my case, such "playing" of new material starts out in private, so that way my initial errors don't throw everyone else off.

So, IMO that home private working-through-tunes is still not "practice", rather it's playing. PLAYING. Because it's a tune, something you can tap your foot to and hum along with, something you can actually later use at a jam or dance or whatever, rather than being a bunch of rhythmless exercise notes that don't translate into anything *immediately* useful in the real world. I think the key word there is "immediately", because you're more likely to remember stuff when you can see immediate practical application of it.

(No clue about bluegrass, but I can say one thing about regular fiddle/dance tunes is that they can be 'exercises' in themselves. And from what little I've seen of Bach etc, looks like the same kind of thing there. PLAY the tune, don't 'practice' it, by playing it you *are* learning the bits and pieces.)

Further, IMO:

1. "Play" also means to constantly be on the lookout for ways to improve the sound, whether that means adapting one's technique or choosing different notes that work better in certain contexts.

2. To properly "play" requires a great ability to *listen*, both to your own playing as well as whoever/whatever you're playing with and the resulting combined sound, to determine whether or not the overall sound is good and to modify one's playing as necessary to make the 'big picture' sound better.

As far as social value, the payoff of all that, is those occasional magical jams or sessions where, if there are sufficient like-minded people, everything just works together beautifully and you are immersed in and surrounded by music that sounds great. Won't necessarily happen every week but, when it does, it's worth the wait.

I'd like to add further emphasis to Mark Wilson's point 3: to advance, it helps to have a goal. I have gotten a lot out of working up a piece of music that is just a hair above my current capabilities. You can develop your own exercises to help you play the piece's difficult passages. Having a concrete piece of music can be a better motivator than just getting better to accomplish...what? ...

Absolutely agree 100-percent.

... I was learning a heck of a lot more by playing what I enjoyed: fiddle tunes. There are thousands of them, and they incorporate nearly every technique, trick, finger maneuver, and pick complexity you could think of. So I decided I was just going to play tunes and learn as I went. Now I'm not going to say I'm any kind of master mandolin player, but my improvement was much greater when I was enjoying playing music. Stopping to do drills as part of a tune that I'm trying to get up to speed is much more enjoyable (and thus helpful) than doing drills for drills' sake.

... The only way to motivate yourself to play every day - and enjoy it - is to stop thinking of it as "practice" and think of it as "playing". For me, that meant learning tunes and their variations. ...

Yup.

Myself,,I don't want to waste my time, I practice things that I can immediately use,,if I can't incorporate it right into my playing,,I don't bother..

Me too, I won't remember it if I don't find some practical application for it within at least a few weeks.