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Thread: Kay Unlabeled Electric Mandolin

  1. #1

    Default Kay Unlabeled Electric Mandolin

    Hello all!

    I have an old (1950's?) Kay electric mandolin that's been passed down through the family. There isn't a label on the headstock but it looks to be a Kay that was manufactured so some other company could sell it. I was hoping to tap into the wealth of knowledge around these parts to get a bit more info on the piece.

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  3. #2
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kay Unlabeled Electric Mandolin

    It was built by Kay in Chicago, probably 50's-60's. Can you post a picture of the back of the headstock?
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
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  4. #3

    Default Re: Kay Unlabeled Electric Mandolin

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    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kay Unlabeled Electric Mandolin

    The tuners put it in the very very late 40's to mid 60's. We need a catalog page.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

  6. #5
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    Default Re: Kay Unlabeled Electric Mandolin

    Absolutely KILLER piece ! Is it still a player?

  7. #6

    Default Re: Kay Unlabeled Electric Mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeZito View Post
    Absolutely KILLER piece ! Is it still a player?
    It is! It has a few frets that need work but overall it's in good shape for the age.

  8. #7

    Default Re: Kay Unlabeled Electric Mandolin

    Agreed, Kay brand made in Chicago, late 40's thru mid 60's. The pickup would also date it to this time period, unfortunately this style of pickup was used for several years by Kay. It also appeared on guitars and basses by Kay and sometimes marketed as Silvertone (Sears brand). Sometimes called the Jimmy Reed or Howlin' Wolf bass pickup. I noticed two very similar Kay electric mandolins had sold on eBay completed items recently, none had a more specific date listed. BOTH of those sold had different tuners on them that were probably original. While Kay (and Gibson) used this style of Kluson tuner on mandolins of this time period, I suspect these are not original to the mandolin. No biggee, but I say this because I've never seen "worm under" double-line Klusons on a mandolin, so I also suspect these were installed upside down by a previous owner. The tuners themselves being double-line versus single-line (the two lines with the name Kluson Deluxe) were available from approximately 1963-1967. The no-line and single-line had a much longer run throughout the 50's up until approx 1962. So the tuners are vintage, but possibly not original to this mandolin. I say that because if they are flipped around, holes would show, at least a couple holes at the ends, and I don't see any. I guess I should ask the owner, "does it tune the right way?" The knobs also appear to have been changed and not original if you compare them to the ones on the mandolins on eBay's completed sales. A more specific date can be determined from the control pots, assuming they are original and have not been changed. The pots used a date code that electric guitar fans use to date when the pots were made which gets you quite a bit closer, at least down to the week and year the pot was made. The assumption being the pots had to have been made before the mandolin, obviously. Trouble is, it will be hard to see without removing the pots. SOMETIMES you can get lucky and see the number stamped on the pot through the f-hole with a mirror and a flashlight. Pot codes were first discussed in Gruhn's Guide to Vintage Guitars, but all that info is available on the internet now. Anyway, looks like a super-cool fun mandolin!

  9. #8

    Default Re: Kay Unlabeled Electric Mandolin

    I just triple-clicked the tuner photo to enlarge and can now see the shadow of a previous tuner "footprint" just beyond each plate as you are looking toward the top of the peghead, so I do feel the tuners were changed at some point.

  10. #9

    Default Re: Kay Unlabeled Electric Mandolin

    The knobs I refer to that appear to have been changed are the chrome telecaster style volume and tone control knobs, not the tuner knobs (buttons), just to be clear......

  11. #10
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kay Unlabeled Electric Mandolin

    Actually it looks like the tuners were simply removed and reinstalled on the wrong side. I think the tuners are original, I'm not sure about the finish.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

  12. #11

    Default Re: Kay Unlabeled Electric Mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeEdgerton View Post
    Actually it looks like the tuners were simply removed and reinstalled on the wrong side. I think the tuners are original, I'm not sure about the finish.
    You are correct. I was interested in learning a bit more about this piece so I started taking it apart. The tuner shadow that Jeff had commented on are for the same tuners, but like you said Mike, they've just been flipped around. I assume the reasoning could be stripped screws. Anyways, nice catch Jeff. I had not noticed this before.

    I took the plate for the electric plug-in off to get a better look inside for some identification numbers. Under the plate, I found the original dark red finish. Under a layer of dust on the inside, I found 'N-3'. This info leads me to believe that the mandolin probably looked like this Kay Mandolin before someone got creative with it.

    Thanks for the help everyone!

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  13. #12

    Default Re: Kay Unlabeled Electric Mandolin

    In 1960 Kay introduced the K390 Professional Electric Mandolin- your instrument- which sold for $100. This was later revamped as the K395 with a different finish, control knobs, a black guard and other detail differences and sold until 1968. I have never seen a photo of one of these mandolins with Kluson tuners before but perhaps in 1960 they were used. The tuners you normally see are a post Kluson type and their general design sees them used on other Kay ,made instruments from that time. I do not know which company made them and they may even have been imported. These mandolins were also sold by Montgomery Ward under the Airline brand. As the Venetian mandolin shape goes back to the late 1920s and Kay's forebears, these instruments tend to be dated as much earlier than they are because of these earlier acoustic models. I believe it is an all laminate construction and I seem to remember reading that the instrument weighs nearly 3lbs- it is heavy! Anyway, it is an eye-catching instrument although its tone is not that great- after all it is an electric mandolin.

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