Is there a significant notice between 20 and 22 inch scale octave

[darylcrisp]

Looking at two octaves in classifieds, one is 20 inch A with f holes, other is Mitch Tadols weber F with D hole, 22".
Both would be shipped to me, cannot play before purchase.
I like both a lot. I assume 20" scale is much easier to reach, but do you really notice 2" difference in scale on octaves?

Thanks
d

[darylcrisp]

The other is the Girouard A, with cedar top.
Both are very different in all aspects, and I'm sure very different tone.

[fox]

Yes there can be lots of difference between 20" & 22" in my opinion, mainly the stretch but also sustain & also with string bending effects.
Not to say in your instance those factors will effect you or that one would sound better than the other as they are different instruments!
I tend towards longer scales for chords and shorter scales for melody, I find the longer the scale the sweeter the chord.
However I dont think either of those scales would be a problem as you would soon adjust.

[bigskygirl]

I have a 23" OM and find playing it to be fine. I do melodies and strumming and it works but I played guitar for years so the stretch doesn't bother me. A friend brought her 20" Weber OM and it was easier to play melodies but I preferred the sound of the longer scale...you'd just have to try them both and decide which one you like.

[darrylicshon]

Yes there is a difference, but it's more what you like , I am a 20" player myself. Wish you could play both cause if you have not tried 22" it's hard to tell if it's too much of a stretch

[darylcrisp]

thanks folks
I've been looking for a short while, I just sent payment to Max at Girouard mandolins for that sweet used A he has in the classifieds.
Max sent me a soundclip a few hours back and it sounds amazinggggg!
I've listened to a couple of used OM's, but none filled in all the lines for me. This A immediately grabbed my attention over the weekend, and the tone nailed it!

If I can figure out how to post the soundclip I will-its in my Hotmail, anyone know how to do that?

[pheffernan]

While I have never played a short scale, and therefore cannot speak from personal experience, I chose a GBOM with a 21.5" scale and a 23" tenor because I wanted a full G course on octave / Irish tuning. That said, I know that some builders (like Fletcher) design for 21" tenors in GDAE, and Bob Clark consistently raves about his 18.5" custom Weber octave, so I suppose anything is possible. Any musical instrument is ultimately a compromise, so it's simply a matter of choosing the compromise that best suits your purposes.

[Explorer]

Looking at two octaves in classifieds, one is 20 inch A with f holes, other is Mitch Tadols weber F with D hole, 22".
Both would be shipped to me, cannot play before purchase.
I like both a lot. I assume 20" scale is much easier to reach, but do you really notice 2" difference in scale on octaves?

Thanks
d

Just so you can look on a ruler, the 22” scale length means that if you are playing a root-second-third-forth run starting at the first fret, you'll have a gap of 2 1/4” between your first and second finger, then a 2” gao between your second and third finger, and then a 1” gap between your ring finger and pinkie.

In comparison, the 20” scale puts a gap of just over two inches between index and middle, less than two inches between middle and ring, and a little over 3/4" between ring and pinkie.

So... 5 1/4" versus 4 3/4”.

You can capo a 25.5" guitar at the second fret to see how a 22" scale feels, and at the fourth fret to see how 20" feels. Drop the second string from B to A, and the third string from G to D before capoing, and you'll be able to see how fifths tuning feels when playing a melody on those three upper strings.

Good luck!

[Astro]

So... 5 1/4" versus 4 3/4”.

You can capo a 25.5" guitar at the second fret to see how a 22" scale feels, and at the fourth fret to see how 20" feels. Drop the second string from B to A, and the third string from G to D before capoing, and you'll be able to see how fifths tuning feels when playing a melody on those three upper strings.

Good luck!

Wow, save that for the archives. Very helpful, thanks. (I'm going through the same exercise).

[Steve Baker]

I currently play a Fylde bouzouki, although that is stretching the term a bit, at just under 23". The same instrument comes stock from Fylde in 20" and is called an octave mandola by the maker. I've had three of the shorter ones and found them to OK but not inspiring. Adding a few inches to the scale made a vast difference in sound quality.
Adapting to the extra stretch was not a big deal. The initial discomfort comes, in my experience, from unfamiliarity and quickly fades as a factor. All things being equal I would opt for the 22" over the 20". FIWI.
Steve

[OneChordTrick]

New to the octave (and playing) but my ha'pennyworth. I have a relatively long instrument and find some tunes easier to play with a capo. Next time round I'll probably choose something shorter, all other things being equal. But at the end of the day I'd go for the one that sounds better and work on my technique

[darylcrisp]

enroute, should be here Friday or Saturday-I cannot figure out how to load the soundclip-its awesome.
looks beautiful, but again, the tone is what sold me immediately-and being used(cheaper) and comes recertified(warranty) thru Max since he was reselling it.

I know I cannot do it justice(playing), but willing to give it a try

[bratsche]

I don't currently have an octave mandolin, but hope to one day. It would have to be a short scale for my hands, mostly because I'd be wanting to play much of the same repertoire as I do on my 17" mandola. I get pretty close with my 20" baritone uke tuned in 5ths, which I attribute to the single course softer strings. I can't do nearly so well with my Baby Taylor converted 8 stringer, but it's neck is very wide, and it's got a 22.5" scale. I figure I would want about a 19" scale for my ideal OM.

bratsche

[CES]

22.5 was fine for chord work, but tough for me to handle on melody work. I'm intrigued by the 21 inch +/- length, and may be trying an Eastman, if any more make it over here...

Daryl, that's gorgeous!!

[Bob Clark]

Any musical instrument is ultimately a compromise, so it's simply a matter of choosing the compromise that best suits your purposes.

I think this is absolutely right. While I really like my 18.5" OM, I am sure there are some players who would not. The compromises we accept in any instrument must match our individual needs. That said, this instrument sure matches mine.

But I am also not quite sure that it is just a matter of scale length. This scale length question might be a bit more complex. I think it is likely that one might not just have to choose the right strings for the scale length, but also the body must be matched to the scale length. By this I mean that perhaps not every body will perform adequately with any scale length.

In the case of my very short scale length, Bruce Weber also scaled back the body. The top and back plates are mandola-sized while the sides are OM-sized, giving a body larger than the typical mandola but smaller than the typical OM. I cannot say whether it would sound as good with a larger or smaller body, I can only say that it works well set up as it is. It has become my main instrument and daily player.

I also don't know whether this would work as well on a flat-top. Mine is a D-hole, carved arch top. It would be interesting to try this scale and body dimensions on a flat-top to see how it goes.

Bratche, it is a shame you don't live nearer to me. I would be more than happy to have you give it a try, given your interest in shorter-scale OMs.

Best wishes,

Bob

[Chuck Leyda]

Versatility and compromise define short scale octaves. Every inch seems to make a difference. I've settled on a Weber 20 inch scale with a D hole.

You can play reasonably fast melody. Full tempo jigs and medium tempo reels and american fiddle tunes. Full on breakdowns and fast reels I usually switch to counter melody and chords. You can do a reasonable bouzouki impersonation. You can do a sorta interesting impersonation of a clawhammer banjo. It's great for solo or small group work where you have the sonic space to put in melody, partial chords, drones and crosspicking. It works well for many different genres

You will never sound as full as a longer scale instrument. You will need to mess around with string gauges. It seems easy to pull a string sharp. If your ear is sensitive it can be almost like a fretless instrument; I sometimes need to move around in the frets to get the perfect pitch.

I'm lucky to have a nice stable of instruments but if I could keep only one, it would be the 20 inch octave mandolin.

[darylcrisp]

I will post a full review in a new thread soon, but the short story is:

the Girouard(and I need to learn how to pronounce this correct) landed safe and sound. Absolutely beautiful in looks, tone, feel, it has the whole package. This is the instrument of all instruments(guitar, banjo, mandolin, weissenborn, dulcimer)that has met what I was hearing in my head and wanted. Its simply fantastic. Light as a feather, build quality is exceptional(think Collings). Soft rounded smooth V neck profile that I had not taken notice of until I looked to see how it was shaped(which is when my hand the neck meet as a perfect matchup-if I'm looking at the neck and checking it out while playing, that means I'm not comfortable with it usually. When I take off and don't even think about it, that's when it works.)

And fun, just outright fun to noodle around on. Angeline the Baker never sounded so good(with my playing-lol)

And a spare Access shortscale 11" pot size shortscale banjo softcase fits it perfect(gigbag guy here).

more later..............

This has #65 inside the label, 2013.
Truly exceptional instrument.