Page 3 of 9 FirstFirst 1234567 ... LastLast
Results 51 to 75 of 225

Thread: tonguards ..do they really work?

  1. #51
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Boulder, CO & Chesterfield, MO
    Posts
    2,562

    Default Re: tonguards ..do they really work?

    What I like best about the tonegard is that I can play softer (and faster) and still get good volume and tone compared to without it. Also, in a loud jam situation it helps cut through better.

  2. #52
    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Upstate New York
    Posts
    24,807
    Blog Entries
    56

    Default Re: tonguards ..do they really work?

    Quote Originally Posted by colorado_al View Post
    What I like best about the tonegard is that I can play softer (and faster) and still get good volume and tone compared to without it. Also, in a loud jam situation it helps cut through better.
    Yes, and when you are louder, you have more dynamic range to mess with, so you can play more expressively.
    A talent for trivializin' the momentous and complicatin' the obvious.

    The entire staff
    funny....

  3. #53
    Registered User misterstormalong's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    South-East England
    Posts
    91

    Default Re: tonguards ..do they really work?

    While I could learn to hold the mando away from my body (while avoiding the acoustic mic) it would just be another factor to worry about. The TG solves the problem without having to think about it. It also provides a degree of protection for the back surface.

    Rik
    Hora Concert Irish Bouzouki
    Eastman MD504 Mandolin
    Crane Duet Concertina
    Gretsch Jim Dandy parlour guitar
    Gold Tone AC-4 Tenor Banjo
    http://justanechoonthewind.blogspot.com/

  4. #54

    Default Re: tonguards ..do they really work?

    If you play with the strap just over the right [ or left ] shoulder it is easier to hold your mandolin away from your body.

    Dave H
    Eastman 615 mandola
    2011 Weber Bitteroot A5
    2012 Weber Bitteroot F5
    Eastman MD 915V
    Gibson F9
    2016 Capek ' Bob ' standard scale tenor banjo
    Ibanez Artist 5 string
    2001 Paul Shippey oval hole

  5. The following members say thank you to Dave Hanson for this post:


  6. #55
    Middle-Aged Old-Timer Tobin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Kerrville, TX
    Posts
    4,004

    Default Re: tonguards ..do they really work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Hanson View Post
    If you play with the strap just over the right [ or left ] shoulder it is easier to hold your mandolin away from your body.

    Dave H
    But the question in my mind is why anyone would want to have to do that if it's not really necessary? The mandolin won't naturally hang from the strap in that position; it wants to hang next to your body. You have to use muscles to push it away and hold it away. When I'm playing, I don't want to have to use muscles to do anything else but play my mandolin. Anything that's not necessary for picking or fretting is a distraction, and adds tension.

    Obviously, it does work for some people. For those who are used to playing that way, I guess it's no big deal. But when I think of the way other instruments are designed, and the methods that professionals teach their students to play, they always stress the importance of removing all extraneous muscle tension from the equation. The body should naturally support the instrument in its playing position, to allow for very fine muscle movements with relaxed hands.

    I dunno, it just seems like holding it away from your body is a less-than-desirable solution to the problem. It works, of course, for freeing the back of the mandolin. But I wouldn't think that it's the ideal way to go about it, especially when a simple device solves the issue and allows one to play it in a more naturally-held position.

    *edited to add: I'm sure the fact that Bill Monroe held his mandolin out away from his body is a large part of why it's so popular to play that way. It has its charms for stage presence and "cool factor". And that's hard to argue with. But ergonomically speaking, I doubt any true professional players would recommend it as the ideal way to play.
    Keep that skillet good and greasy all the time!

  7. #56
    Registered User varmonter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Vermont
    Posts
    150

    Default Re: tonguards ..do they really work?

    All great thoughts to ponder...i am thinking now
    I may hold off on purchasing the tg for a few months..first the ellis came in a tkl case.
    I highly doubt it will fit.i am having a case
    Made for it by wayne perry from aus. He is scheduled to start in june..not sure how
    Long that takes...but time is good to let it
    Cure. I could always play it like a rock star.
    Like that guy from the steeldrivers. A long enough
    Strap and i could hold it under my craft beer investment. t
    There is a marked difference in tone as well as vol.
    When i hold this instrument away from me. A tribute to its fine light and responsive construction.

  8. #57
    Quietly Making Noise Dave Greenspoon's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Leesburg, VA
    Posts
    1,102

    Default Re: tonguards ..do they really work?

    Yes. And mine has become one with the Rigel. Rarely has come off over many years.
    Axes: Eastman MD-515 & El Rey; Eastwood S Mandola
    Amps: Fishman Loudbox 100; Rivera Clubster Royale Recording Head & R212 cab; Laney Cub 10

  9. #58
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Kernersville, NC
    Posts
    2,593
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default Re: tonguards ..do they really work?

    Quote Originally Posted by V70416 View Post
    Want to get some of the new surgical tubing to replace the old black rubbers.
    I bought an older TG listed here and it needed some fresh pads. Tony included some of the clear tubing he uses now along with the new pads. Better than the black tubing

  10. #59
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Howell, NJ
    Posts
    26,874

    Default Re: tonguards ..do they really work?

    For anyone thinking of replacing their pads with just any clear tubing make sure it isn't vinyl. Vinyl and Lacquer will react. I'm not sure what Tony is using now but I'm sure he knows what is in his tubing. He makes an excellent product.

    http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Musi...nyl/vinyl.html
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

  11. #60
    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Upstate New York
    Posts
    24,807
    Blog Entries
    56

    Default Re: tonguards ..do they really work?

    Quote Originally Posted by misterstormalong View Post
    While I could learn to hold the mando away from my body (while avoiding the acoustic mic) it would just be another factor to worry about. The TG solves the problem without having to think about it. It also provides a degree of protection for the back surface.
    I play for long periods of time, in casual situations. A typical jam runs over two and half hours, frequently over three hours, and I am the one who stays late with the stragglers for the more intimate "after jam jam". So no matter how correct my mandolin hold might be at first, eventually it is the tonegard that keeps the mandolin back free of my body.
    A talent for trivializin' the momentous and complicatin' the obvious.

    The entire staff
    funny....

  12. #61
    Registered User Bob Buckingham's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Greer, SC
    Posts
    898

    Default Re: tonguards ..do they really work?

    No they don't do any good, just send me any you have. I know what to do with them. Actually I don't like one on my Collings MT. They sound good on all of my other mandolins.

  13. #62
    garded
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    now Los Osos, CA
    Posts
    1,996

    Default Re: tonguards ..do they really work?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeEdgerton View Post
    For anyone thinking of replacing their pads with just any clear tubing make sure it isn't vinyl. Vinyl and Lacquer will react. I'm not sure what Tony is using now but I'm sure he knows what is in his tubing. He makes an excellent product.

    http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Musi...nyl/vinyl.html
    You are right Mike, plastic and surgical hose are horrible on finishes. Surgical hose is made to be disposable and when it deteriorates it turns into this horrible goo that will eat through epoxy. Plastic hose with eat through anything because of the emulsifiers in it to keep it pliable. The new stuff is Tygon 3350 platinum cured lab grade silicon. It won't deteriorate or oxidize and is totally inert. I was turned on to it by S.Block who happens to be a chem prof at Stanford U. It's 8x more expensive than the old vac hose, but has proven to be worth it. If I'd known of it 30yrs ago I'd have used it. But it being in medical and lab catalogs was totally outside my experience. I also needed help to find the right formulation as there are any number of different applications. Another example of user feedback/help that improved the Gard. Thx Doc.

  14. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to TonyP For This Useful Post:


  15. #63
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Helena, Montana
    Posts
    2,872

    Default Re: tonguards ..do they really work?

    TonyP,
    Thanks for a great product. It makes my mandolin sound better.

  16. #64
    Registered User sblock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Redwood City, CA
    Posts
    2,335

    Default Re: tonguards ..do they really work?

    Quote Originally Posted by TonyP View Post
    You are right Mike, plastic and surgical hose are horrible on finishes. Surgical hose is made to be disposable and when it deteriorates it turns into this horrible goo that will eat through epoxy. Plastic hose with eat through anything because of the emulsifiers in it to keep it pliable. The new stuff is Tygon 3350 platinum cured lab grade silicon. It won't deteriorate or oxidize and is totally inert. I was turned on to it by S.Block who happens to be a chem prof at Stanford U. It's 8x more expensive than the old vac hose, but has proven to be worth it. If I'd known of it 30yrs ago I'd have used it. But it being in medical and lab catalogs was totally outside my experience. I also needed help to find the right formulation as there are any number of different applications. Another example of user feedback/help that improved the Gard. Thx Doc.
    Thank you, Tony, for the shout-out! Actually, I'm a Professor of Applied Physics and of Biology here at Stanford University (a joint appointment), and not Chemistry, but that's a minor detail. I'm delighted to learn that Tygon 3350 silicone tubing continues to work well to protect the finishes of mandolins with Tone-Gards. I love my Tone-Gard. As George Lane said, it's a great product!!

    Yes, platinum-cured silicone is one of the most inert substances you can find that's made into elastic tubing. It's used in many biomedical applications, because it resists the growth of microorganisms (which cannot 'eat' it). The use of platinum metal as an external catalyst (something which does not form any part of the final tube) insures that there are no plasticizers or polymerizers left inside the tubing walls after the liquid silicone polymer has set up, because no plasticizers/polymerizers are used in the first place -- unlike the case with all other conventional "rubber" or "plastic" (elastomeric) tubing! It's these plasticizers that typically do all the damage with other types of tubing. Plasticizers are small, highly reactive molecules that can, and do, leach out of the tubing walls for years, where they can do chemical damage. The plasticizers typically used in flexible vinyl products, for example, are extremely damaging to all nitrocellulose and some varnish finishes, just as Mike Edgerton pointed out.

  17. #65
    formerly Philphool Phil Goodson's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Statesville, NC
    Posts
    3,256

    Default Re: tonguards ..do they really work?

    Is there a way to buy small amounts of the proper tubing to replace the old stuff on older Tone-Gards?
    Phil

    “Sharps/Flats” “Accidentals”

  18. #66
    Registered User sblock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Redwood City, CA
    Posts
    2,335

    Default Re: tonguards ..do they really work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Philphool View Post
    Is there a way to buy small amounts of the proper tubing to replace the old stuff on older Tone-Gards?
    Actually, it's hard-to-impossible to buy this in small enough quantities from any commercial vendor, and you only need about 6" for a mandolin -- less than 2" on each of the three prongs. I'll bet you that Tony Pires (TonyP, here on the MC) would get some to you, though. Why don't you PM him?

  19. The following members say thank you to sblock for this post:


  20. #67
    Registered User varmonter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Vermont
    Posts
    150

    Default Re: tonguards ..do they really work?

    Fascinating... to quote spock.. all this thought into a
    Little plasticesque nub..thanks for the responses..
    I guess my concern right now is more for the finish
    Than the projection. This mandolin is plenty loud
    Even perched on my craft beer investment. Guess
    I will hold off until fall and revisit the TG.

  21. #68
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Charlottesville, VA
    Posts
    87

    Default Re: tonguards ..do they really work?

    One thing I just recently noticed after playing my mando with the tone-gard off is that my instrument was suffering some loss of sustain from the dampening effect the arms of the Tonegard had on the ribs. When I had it off I noticed a definite improvement in sustain and tone (although a loss in volume due to the back being muffled) so I gently pulled the rubber-coated arms(feet) apart so the Tonegard just fits barely snug around the sides and it helped a lot. That being said I put my Tonegard on back in February and haven't taken it off since then until just the other day because I liked the increase in volume and low-end that it provided. Btw the protection it provides to the back is no small thing and many times has been the difference in a potentially damaging whack against the back and just a mere bump that is thwarted from the protection provided by the TG.
    "All music is folk music, i ain't never heard no horse sing a song"- Louie Armstrong

    Eastman md-314
    Eastman md-615
    Martin D-35
    Takamine gd-20ns
    pre-war German "Stradivarius" violin

  22. The following members say thank you to fidlplr1979 for this post:


  23. #69
    Registered User T.D.Nydn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Upstate N.Y.
    Posts
    1,331

    Default Re: tonguards ..do they really work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Hanson View Post
    If you play with the strap just over the right [ or left ] shoulder it is easier to hold your mandolin away from your body.

    Dave H
    I find the same thing..hanging it on one shoulder,the mandolin naturally wants to swing out,away from the body,,your right forearm lightly on the mandolin, like when your playing,,easily controls the instruments angle,and can place it in many positions at will....

  24. #70
    Middle-Aged Old-Timer Tobin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Kerrville, TX
    Posts
    4,004

    Default Re: tonguards ..do they really work?

    Quote Originally Posted by fidlplr1979 View Post
    One thing I just recently noticed after playing my mando with the tone-gard off is that my instrument was suffering some loss of sustain from the dampening effect the arms of the Tonegard had on the ribs. When I had it off I noticed a definite improvement in sustain and tone (although a loss in volume due to the back being muffled) so I gently pulled the rubber-coated arms(feet) apart so the Tonegard just fits barely snug around the sides and it helped a lot.
    Hmm, that's interesting. I wouldn't think that the arms would make much of a difference in sustain, since the sides/ribs don't really contribute to sustain. Sitting the mandolin on your lap is dampening the sides much more than those arms. I haven't noticed any sustain issues when seated versus standing, or with/without the ToneGard. And I would have difficulty believing that a slight reduction in pressure of the arms would change the sustain.

    But - sustain could be affected by how the ToneGard is fitted to the mandolin, due to the pads on the edge of the cage (the ones that make contact with the rear of the mandolin body when playing, as seen in my photo below). The arms have to be bent very carefully to make the cage align as closely as possible to the edge of the mandolin so that those pads aren't dampening the back in the recurve area. Even if they were, it would still be better than not having it installed, but I could see how it would possibly lead to a slight reduction in sustain. Do you think that your readjustment perhaps changed this contact area?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Ellis-back.JPG 
Views:	99 
Size:	185.7 KB 
ID:	157679  
    Keep that skillet good and greasy all the time!

  25. #71
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Owasso, OK Destin, FL
    Posts
    72

    Default Re: tonguards ..do they really work?

    Look at this tone gard experience:
    https://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/111544#111544

  26. #72
    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Upstate New York
    Posts
    24,807
    Blog Entries
    56

    Default Re: tonguards ..do they really work?

    Blemishes from the tonegard are one thing. Damage to the surface is another.

    If the legs are eating into the instrument and causing incremental damage, that would not be good.

    But blemishes are no part of nuthin. I consider my tonegard part of the instrument now, and what blemishes there are under its feet will never be seen because the tonegard never comes off. Heck, there is a ragged hole into the bare wood underneath the strap button.
    A talent for trivializin' the momentous and complicatin' the obvious.

    The entire staff
    funny....

  27. #73
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Boulder, CO & Chesterfield, MO
    Posts
    2,562

    Default Re: tonguards ..do they really work?

    Some people prefer their mandolins to be pristine. Others like to use tone gards or armrests or put strap buttons on the heel of the neck, or have pic guards or not. Your mandolin is likely never going to look as good as it did on the day it left the shop for the first time, but it may sound better as time goes on, and some items like a tone gard or armrest can make that happen instantly. They will cause blemishing, but to me, the trade off is more than worth it. If you don't want anything to blemish your instrument, don't use them. If you want to explore all of the sounds that you and your instrument can make together, then you should certainly try them out.

  28. #74

    Default Re: tonguards ..do they really work?

    Quote Originally Posted by JeffD View Post
    … I consider my tonegard part of the instrument now …
    Absolutely. I don't understand the reluctance to get something that helps the mandolin sound better. I was against them at first because I thought they had to be attached with screws, like a pick guard - but I was wrong. My mandolin has a nitro finish and so far … blemishes of all sorts have rubbed off very easily. Don't know about oil-based varnishes, however.

  29. #75
    Registered User sblock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Redwood City, CA
    Posts
    2,335

    Default Re: tonguards ..do they really work?

    Some of the older Tone-Gards managed to cause blemishes by roughening the surface underneath (that is, the removal of the top layers of finish, down to the wood). This was caused mainly by abrasion from taking these on and off, or by rubbing action while in regular use. Roughening tended to happen mainly with those older, black butyl rubber hoses that covered the three spring prongs which contact the sides of the instrument and hold the Tone-Gard on. The more recent Tone-Gards have switched over to using clear silicone tubing instead, which is extremely smooth and inert, and it does not roughen the finish.

    However, the sustained downbearing pressure from the three prongs, although fairly light, can nevertheless cause a soft finish to dent slightly, displacing a thin layer, and resulting in a different type of blemish: one which is less apparent. This phenomenon does not tend to happen with harder (and older) finishes. It mainly happens on softer, or thicker, new finishes. Examples of softer finishes include fresh nitrocellulose lacquer, or new oil or spirit varnish finishes that have not quite fully cured. These dents do not affect the underlying wood at all, and they can often by rubbed out, if desired, or touched up.

    I have had Tone-Gards on an older Altman F5 (varnish finish), older Pomeroy PF5 (nitro finish), older Mowry A5 (varnish), and a new Northfield M5 (varnish) with the newer silicone tubing for >1 yr, and without causing any blemishes whatsoever. I did get a minor dent on a new Weber whose nitro finish had not fully set up, however.

    Those of us with Tone-Gards are happy to make these small compromises. It's worth adding that they protect the back of the instrument from things like buckle and button rash, and those blemishes are almost invariably worse! The backs of my mandos are entirely scratch-free!

    That said, if you truly want to keep your mandolin in a truly pristine condition, just keep it inside its case and don't take it out and play it.

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •