Vintage Gibson mandolin fret boards

[Pittsburgh Bill]

Now that I have my "to me" ideal mandolin family of instruments, I am thinking that it may be time to begin looking for an addition with an 80 - 100 year history.
While I have never played one of these, I look at them in the Cafe classifieds with curiosity.
I assume that the vintage Gibsons have a flat fret board which I do not prefer to play. Would someone in the know verify this and when did Gibson {& Martin} begin using radius fret boards?
I know I could have a Luthier apply a radius fret board, but I cannot see myself doing this to what I consider a piece of history in need of being maintained as close to original as humanly possible.

[Tobin]

Yes, vintage Gibsons are flat boards. Even the modern ones are flat on most models, as I recall.

[William Smith]

Yes, vintage Gibsons are flat boards. Even the modern ones are flat on most models, as I recall.

Yep all are flat unless in the past 20 years ya got a custom job built. Or had someone radius one for ya aftermarket style. I like radius boards but flats aren't too bad, just get used to pickin on both
Carter vintage has a 36 F-5 that has a radiused board-that of course isn't original, Chris Thile I believe had radius boards put on his Loars? I'm sure he pry had em made and saved the original boards but anything can be done for the right amount of$$$$$

[acousticphd]

Here's the thing to consider: If you buy a 70 or 80 or 100 yr old Gibson (or pretty much any older mandolin without a truss rod), chances are that it will need the fingerboard leveled and refretted. Of course there will be exceptions, but not many, unless the a previous owner has already had it done. I own 5-6 vintage Gibson or Gibson-made mandolins, and have had this work done on all of them (twice, on one of them).

I would not not hesitate to put a radius on any FB that was needing to be leveled and refretted - if that is what you prefer. I've had it done to two old Kalamazoos and my Gibson A. I don't mind a flat FB, but I'm glad I had the radiusing done.

[Tobin]

Usually when this subject comes up, I feel the need to point this out: the flat versus radiused fretboard issue is going to be the most minor difference you experience if you're used to playing more modern instruments. The pre-Loar Gibsons had pretty chunky, deep V-shaped necks with wider nuts than are common today. That alone is 10x the difference to your hand than the fretboard flatness/curvature is. You just have to learn to play the vintage ones with a different feel, and enjoy them for what they are.

[allenhopkins]

...when did Gibson {& Martin} begin using radius fret boards?...

I assume you're referring to Martin guitars? As far as I know, Martin never made a mandolin with a radiused board.

I think Martin introduced radiused boards in the 1920's, when they went to steel strings as standard on their non-classical models.

I hope other Cafe-ers who know more about this, will correct me if needed.

[William Smith]

Usually when this subject comes up, I feel the need to point this out: the flat versus radiused fretboard issue is going to be the most minor difference you experience if you're used to playing more modern instruments. The pre-Loar Gibsons had pretty chunky, deep V-shaped necks with wider nuts than are common today. That alone is 10x the difference to your hand than the fretboard flatness/curvature is. You just have to learn to play the vintage ones with a different feel, and enjoy them for what they are.

Right on the $ brother! I'm personally not a fan of the fat chunky V necks! I've been known to get rid of the V in modern Gibson's I've done it on my first real good mandolin a 2000-01 Gibson F5-G, people thought I was nuts but hey it was paid for! I really wish I could find that mando again and buy her back. I swapped her years ago to Charles Johnson of Mando World Headquarters! He said it went to France! I'd still like it back if I could find her!
My F-7 conversions that Randy Wood did had too fat of a neck so hey down I took em, I found out how deep he went with the truss rod and went from there! V-necks just aint comfy to me anyway

[Pittsburgh Bill]

Usually when this subject comes up, I feel the need to point this out: the flat versus radiused fretboard issue is going to be the most minor difference you experience if you're used to playing more modern instruments. The pre-Loar Gibsons had pretty chunky, deep V-shaped necks with wider nuts than are common today. That alone is 10x the difference to your hand than the fretboard flatness/curvature is. You just have to learn to play the vintage ones with a different feel, and enjoy them for what they are.

I appreciate the knowledgable responses from those that either owned or loved these vintage instruments. But for me, I think this has convinced me I would be buying something that I would not enjoy playing.
Perhaps if I was born 100 years earlier, ........

[lenf12]

I think this has convinced me I would be buying something that I would not enjoy playing. Perhaps if I was born 100 years earlier, ........

You would be REALLY old today. To your point, had you started out playing an old Gibson with a wider, flat fingerboard, small frets and V shaped neck and then moved to a modern radiused fingerboard with larger frets and soft V profile, you could easily enjoy playing both styles and transition seamlessly between either one.

I bought my original 1916 F-4 back in 1975 and still enjoy playing very much. My main mandolin is a 1956 F-12 with a narrower, flat fingerboard and soft V profile so not too much of a difference with the F-4. Over the years, I have owned and/or played several other mandolins (most notably Rigel mandolins which have a different U profile, compound radiused fingerboard, large frets) and have no problems adjusting to the "feel" of them or switching from one style mandolin to another.

The enjoyment factor is largely a function of the music being made not which mandolin you are making it on imho. I think your hands are more adaptable than you may give them credit.

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

[Tobin]

The enjoyment factor is largely a function of the music being made not which mandolin you are making it on imho. I think your hands are more adaptable than you may give them credit.

I agree with Len. Playing a vintage Gibson mandolin with its wider, chunkier neck and flat board is a different experience, to be sure. And it's going to require a little adjustment in your playing, but so what? As long as it has a decent setup, like any other mandolin, it will still be perfectly playable and make good music. Being different is sort of the point, isn't it? If you're looking for a vintage Gibson to be exactly like a modern mandolin, you're in it for the wrong reasons.

When I pick up my '18 F4, I'm not looking to play the same music I play on my Ellis F5. It's a different mandolin, it plays differently, it sounds differently, and it calls to me for a different style of music. The difference in how I play it is related to all of the variables, not just the fact that the neck feels different.

That said, it's not as comfortable or as "fast" to play as my modern Ellis. But it's certainly playable and enjoyable, and I wouldn't avoid vintage mandolins because of it.

[Jim Garber]

While I have never played one of these, I look at them in the Cafe classifieds with curiosity.

How did you ever avoid playing an older Gibson? They are all over the place.

If I were you I would try playing one in person. There is a 1922 one at Acoustic Music Works in Pittsburgh. That one is a snakehead so the neck is slimmer, too.

[Bob A]

If you radius an old fretboard, you'll need to deal with the bridge as well, since the distance from string to board will change, especially on the G & E strings.

[dhmando]

Pittsburg Bill, I have actually seen original radius fingerboards on Gibson mandolins from the Orville era, teens, twenties, including a Loar F-5, thirties, forties and just about every other era.

[Capt. E]

Everyone should own a paddle head Gibson at least once (A2's are the best "bargains"). I'll never sell mine. Not like you are going to loose money. You will always be able to sell for what you have in it, assuming you end up getting tired of it.

[Strabo]

My 1922 A Junior paddle head is a treat -- clear tone, well balanced, loud, good for all kinds of music. The neck is a little thick, the fretboard is flat, and the frets are old-time tiny. But is is a fine instrument, a pleasure to play. I am happy to be its custodian for a while. Soon it will be 100 years old!

[Andy Morton]

Did the builders at the factory back at Kalamazoo build any relief into the neck or did these pre-truss rod Gibson mandos have flat fretboards—-and the string tension bowed the neck just enough to provide good relief?

[Bob A]

I agree with Len. Playing a vintage Gibson mandolin with its wider, chunkier neck and flat board is a different experience, to be sure. And it's going to require a little adjustment in your playing, but so what? As long as it has a decent setup, like any other mandolin, it will still be perfectly playable and make good music. Being different is sort of the point, isn't it? If you're looking for a vintage Gibson to be exactly like a modern mandolin, you're in it for the wrong reasons.

When I pick up my '18 F4, I'm not looking to play the same music I play on my Ellis F5. It's a different mandolin, it plays differently, it sounds differently, and it calls to me for a different style of music. The difference in how I play it is related to all of the variables, not just the fact that the neck feels different.

That said, it's not as comfortable or as "fast" to play as my modern Ellis. But it's certainly playable and enjoyable, and I wouldn't avoid vintage mandolins because of it.

I'm very much in agreement with the above.

My experience leads me to understand that the many variations in instrument style, design and construction, and perhaps just as importantly the way it may have been played by previous owners, whose interactions with the instrument may have introduced their own set of variations, will have resulted in an object that has much to teach a new owner.

One can learn from an instrument that differs from one's norm. It can in effect guide you into a new way of playing, and indeed bring one to a new kind of music altogether: the instrument as teacher.

Or not. I suspect much depends on the player, and his openness to the experience generated by the interaction of musician and instrument.


Edit: Lured into a necro thread; apologies for the tangent; I even missed my much earlier post.

[Jim Garber]

Bob A: like that term “necro thread.”