ID of vintage mandolin; picked it up in the Netherlands

[MadMatters]

Hello friends,

I recently picked up a mandolin from a shop here in the Netherlands that imports instruments from the US and Germany (the Fellowship of Acoustics); the owner told me it might be a Gibson (it has Gibson hardware on it); further, he could tell me that the top has been renewed; and that that was the reason the soundhole looked different. There are no marks or anything visible that could tell me what it really is. It sounds and feels like an old Gibson for sure - but then again; I am not a pro :-)

Would anybody have an idea what kind of mandolin this is? We have been guessing around 1920-1930's, and maybe a Gibson... The Luthier remarked that it could also be a very good copy of a Gibson; he also wasnt sure.

Since it had to be refretted I brought it to a Luthier who remarked that the frets were smaller than the now available fret wire; they were 1mm as opposed to the 1.35 that apparently now is common - phoning around did not produce any 1mm fret wire, so now he is going to take out the first 6 frets, smoothen them and reinsert them a bit higher; I think he knows what he is doing, but I am curious how this kind of thing would normally be handled. Is there any fine fretwire around? (Guess this is hard to find!)

Anyway; I am happy to have become a member of the forum - all the way from Amsterdam!

Cheers and thx for reading, regards,

Matthieu

I see that the pics have shifted anticlockwise, but I dont see how I can change this - sorry

[FLATROCK HILL]

Hi MadMatters,

No expert here by any stretch. I will chime in though with an opinion. I'd say what you have is sort of a re-creation of a late teens, early 1920s style Gibson F mandolin. The tuners may have even been taken from a Gibson of that era. Possibly the pickguard, bridge and tailpiece too. I don't believe your mandolin was built by Gibson however.

It still may sound great and be lots of fun to play. I hope you get lots of enjoyment from it.

[Tobin]

It looks like a copy of a Gibson, but a lot of the details I am seeing would not be authentic for a Gibson. Specifically, the neck join area, the shape of the scroll, and the peghead. The shape of the peghead, especially that sharp spike under the treble side scroll, is not something Gibson would have done.

If it sounds good, though, then play it and be happy!

[MadMatters]

Thanks! Yes, I am super happy with it, has an old groovy sound and is easy to play.

[MadMatters]

Hey, thx a lot for your comments - I never owned an instrument this old, so it's nice to try to trace it back to were it come from - in this case, i can trace it to an English cowboy that lives here in the Netherlands who doesnt remember selling it to the shop I got it from... :-) I will be playing this for a some years for sure. thx again!

[allenhopkins]

Gibson copy, IMHO. Back's bound similarly to an F-4, but an F-4 would have had a bound and inlaid headstock and a wide outer ring around the soundhole. Concur about the difference in headstock shape, as well. A good copy, though, possibly using some Gibson parts -- the pickguard looks quite Gibsonesque, as does the tailpiece cover -- definitely by someone working from a Gibson model.

I love these idiosyncratic rarities, "one-ofs" from unknown sources. And it has provenance (the English cowboy), a good back-story to tell the curious. Nice find.

[mrmando]

The pickguard appears to be from an A-style Gibson mandolin, but the mandolin itself is sort of a freewheeling interpretation of a Gibson F4.

The tuners and fretboard look like they might have come from a Gibson F-style mandolin. The tailpiece is also from a Gibson, and the bridge might be as well (does it have a patent date stamp on the base)?

So it was built by somebody who had access to a lot of old Gibson parts. More likely built in America than in Europe.

It's not likely to be much more than 30 years old, methinks, even if some of its parts are older. The earliest known copy of a Gibson F-style is from 1934.

[Ray(T)]

The term "English Cowboy" has an entirely different connotation in the UK!

[MadMatters]

The term "English Cowboy" has an entirely different connotation in the UK!

Yes that connation was not unintended; same here in Holland when we use the word :-)

[MadMatters]

The pickguard appears to be from an A-style Gibson mandolin, but the mandolin itself is sort of a freewheeling interpretation of a Gibson F4.

The tuners and fretboard look like they might have come from a Gibson F-style mandolin. The tailpiece is also from a Gibson, and the bridge might be as well (does it have a patent date stamp on the base)?

So it was built by somebody who had access to a lot of old Gibson parts. More likely built in America than in Europe.

It's not likely to be much more than 30 years old, methinks, even if some of its parts are older. The earliest known copy of a Gibson F-style is from 1934.

Ok, interesting! it does take away some of the mythical proportions though if it is not that old :-). The fretboard looks much like a picture of a F2 that i found on the web (but hey, I'm really a noob). I will look at the bridge when it comes back from repair.

Thanks for your insights!

[Eric Platt]

Agree with the others that it's a copy of a Gibson. Appears to be real Gibson parts. Maybe the original was busted beyond repair so someone built a new one around the parts?

Personally think it's older than 30 years with the smaller than normal fretwire. No reason to do that these days. But that's just my opinion and I've been wrong more times than not.

Whatever it is, it looks nice and hopefully you get it to play how you want it. Appears to be a keeper.

[mrmando]

Personally think it's older than 30 years with the smaller than normal fretwire. No reason to do that these days.

The fretboard is pre-1929 and probably taken off a Gibson F2 or F4 along with other hardware. But the rest of the instrument isn't likely to be that old.