To Style B or not to Style B

[mrmando]

This doesn't look like any Lyon & Healy Style B I've come across; the points are too large and too far down the body, for starters.

But whoever made this somehow managed to get hold of a Lyon & Healy label.

What do you think?

https://reverb.com/item/5702834-vint...eco-headstock?

[BradKlein]

[Ausdoerrt]

Looks odd to me as well, and the label is way blurry to make much out of it.

The headstock, tuners, tailpiece, binding, finish all look different from the L&H I have and others I've seen on photos. The top/back also look much too flat.

I think that either the mando has been refinished/significantly modified, or it's not a L&H mando.

[Graham McDonald]

In a word, no! Perhaps New York built by one of the Ciani school, but not a Lyon & Healy.

[Timbofood]

It was built between March and June?

So it's a May "b"?

Alright, I know, stand in the corner!

[BradKlein]

Perhaps New York built by one of the Ciani school...

It does have elements of the NYC D'Angelico or Ciana school. Although the headstock carving is clearly L&H influenced...

[brunello97]

I saw this on the Ebay and sent the seller a question requesting a clearer photo of the label. Hopefully, they respond.

Mick

[manjitsu]

Is it just me, or do the top and back appear almost completely flat? Certainly appears to be considerably less arch than any of the L&Hs I've owned over the years. The purfling suggests it was made by someone with a violin background, and while the headstock looks to be inspired by the Style C, it's not exactly similar.

Definitely not a Lyon and Healy, in my opinion, but a very interesting and fetching little instrument for sure.

Chris

[ollaimh]

this looks a lot like the two point discussed on another thread recently, but with the finish touched up and strung up. he got it fo around 700 usd and now id trying to make two grand profit? nice looking well worth the restoration but it looks like a flat top to me, which is fine, but it doesn't look lke a lyon and healey. on the other thread a few people thought it was worth 700 for the arrowhead waverly tuners--which might have been a joke. hey jim garber is this the same one you posted about?

[MikeEdgerton]

Yup, this one. The same model, not sure if it's the same mandolin.

[ollaimh]

paint him into the corner for good

[MikeEdgerton]

This is the other one.

[MikeEdgerton]

Without getting crazy the one for sale on Reverb is on the left, the one on the right was the previous listing.

[MikeEdgerton]

The original listing doesn't look like it has a label but I guess the label could have fallen off and dropped to the bottom of the mandolin. I don't know why the original listing would have been for a no-name mandolin if they could see the label. My 2 cents.

[Tobin]

Wow. Definitely the same mandolin as in the other thread. So this seller bought it, did a little work on it to make it look better (though didn't fix some of the more serious issues), put parts on it, strung it up, did a setup, and is now passing it on. That's all fine and dandy, I guess, if they are honest about it not being 100% original.

But I'm real curious where this label came from. I really doubt that the original label fell off and was still inside. I mean, I know that happens sometimes, but the blurry photo leads me to question the honesty of this label. It would be great if someone could get more info from the seller, including an explanation of how it suddenly got a label which was obviously missing before.

[brunello97]

But I'm real curious where this label came from... It would be great if someone could get more info from the seller, including an explanation of how it suddenly got a label which was obviously missing before.

I sent the seller a note about the label, but starting to think that I probably won't get an answer.

Attaching a photo of a proper L+H label and the photo from the Ebay ad. Now I'm wondering if the label itself is blurry and not the photograph...

Mick

[ollaimh]

Without getting crazy the one for sale on Reverb is on the left, the one on the right was the previous listing.

sure looks the same

[ollaimh]

i smell a rat. they had a label lying around and added it.(or printed a label) it was a nice mandolin at the ebay auction price, as a no name. it looks like a scam with the reverb ad.

[mrmando]

Ah yes, the earlier listing crossed my mind but I didn't take the time to investigate.

Same instrument was also listed on eBay with the new photos and the Style B claim. But if this seller deliberately put a fake label in there, or posted a photo of a label to mislead potential buyers, this has gone from being an interesting old instrument to an outright fraud.

I reported it to eBay as a counterfeit item.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/302362188876

[ollaimh]

i saw a guitar recenlty that had a great martin head stock, which was offered as a 1926. the martin logo was perfect, for 2015!! they printed one and put it on, very well done as a copy of the new label. computers can fake many things very well now. call me a cynic.

i really liked the look of the ebay auction version but i have too many mandolins(sorry i blurted that blasphmeny out). now not so interested. it probably would sound great with all issues fixed.

[brunello97]

Heard back from the seller who said they'd send me a photo of the label tonight "because they maxed out the number of Ebay images".

Hmmm. We'll see.....

Mick

[ollaimh]

aw, he won't ship to canada.

[brunello97]

Well, the Ebay seller did come through and send me some more photos of the label. Each one is equally fuzzy and nearly illegible. He says it's very "faded". Honestly, looks like a bad copy or photo reprint.

I wonder if the guy selling it now knows that this is a phony attribution? Don't have the energy to pop the balloon tonight but will send him a word in the morning.

Mick

[MikeEdgerton]

I wonder if the label is so fuzzy because they simply enlarged an image from a book and printed it?

[mrmando]

I wonder if the label is so fuzzy because they simply enlarged an image from a book and printed it?

Could be ... the fuzziness of the label is quite a contrast to the sharpness of the strings and rosette in the photo.