Live Performance - Dynamics v. Condensers v. a mix of both

[Spiralup]

Hey All,

I'm in my first bluegrass band. 5-piece (guitar, mando, fiddle, bass, banjo). Together over a year. Most of us sing. We really like the bluegrass style of mixing by moving around a single condenser. We're getting better at it. But we're noticing that the volume sensitivity of the condenser dies away very quickly with distance, so we get a kind of thin sound, with great presence for those close to the mic, but too little presence from the surrounding distance. We are as close together as we can be. Turning up gain is a feedback issue in the indoor and outdoor venues we've played so far. The PA speakers can only be placed so far away. I've seen bluegrass bands solely use a condenser. I've seen bands solely use a separate dynamic for each instrument and vocal; this feels distant and not as much fun. I've seen a mix where there's a center condenser, especially for vocals, but also a few side dynamics for banjo and one other instrument like fiddle. This seems like the most likely way to balance getting signals into mics while enjoying the interplay of sharing a center condenser. Based on experience, do you have any opinions on equipment or practices?

Equipment list: Mics: (Condenser: SE2200A2c Dynamics: SM57s & Beta58As); Mixer Mackie 1402vlz or Mackie CFX 20; PA: Mackie 450s. No monitors are used. The bass uses a pickup/Mic combo into an ART Preamp that goes to the board. The bass player has his own monitor that feeds to the main mix and also to the bass monitor.

Thanks!

--Adam

[Mandoplumb]

The die hard PA pros will tell you it won't work but get you a fairly good compressor, and EQ. Learn to ring out the room if you are not already doing so, and use moderate compression and one mic will not "thin-out" on you. Dale Perry started me in the right direction when he was with Doyle Lawson and they were using one mic. One mic is all we have used for years. We play small festivals outside parties, churchs ( small to large) and have been well satisfied. There is a dance around the mic you must learn and I'm not sure you can make it work in a real noisey environment like a rowdy bar but we don't play those. If you want to stick to a true one mic system and have questions PM me, I'll try to help get you started.

[pops1]

There has been some discussion about a GoRack, which is cheap, and if you only use the antifeedback part will help you. I have used them when we have an open band for square dances and musicians keep changing. It has helped the volume without feedback immensely.

[almeriastrings]

The biggest issue with live acoustic music is the venue or room itself. In a good venue, you can do things that are literally impossible in a 'bad' room. You have to be able to cope with whatever the gig throws at you.

Hence, a 'Plan A' and a 'Plan B' backup position.

Major bands tend not to have to deal with lousy venues that much, but if you play small venues you certainly will.

On the topic of compression, in a really bad room this is not a great idea as it lowers the feedback threshold considerably. In a decent venue (especially with no floor monitors or using IEM's) you can get away with it.

Ringing out the room and using an AFS system can buy you quite a few extra dB 'headroom'. Your current mixer options lack the kind of EQ precision required for this.....take a look at the QSC Touchmix 8 (with V3 firmware) which has exactly what's needed on board.

[Charlieshafer]

To piggy-back on what Almeria has said, the key issue for a stage plan is space. More space means you have more room for some extra mics if needed. A tight space means too many mics will cause all sort of bleeding and muddy sound, as the instruments can't truly be isolated. Sound bleed can be an acceptable thing in the right quantities (it's a staple in the early Columbia recordings) but tough to control when you're moving around. You can try (accent on try) two additional condensers at instrument level, one off to either side, so you can pick up he instruments when not around he central mic, but this requires practice also in maintaining proper distances so the instruments to the side don't get too loud.

On one hand it's simple, on the other, you need to practice mic placement and player distances from mics. Experiment experiment experiment. Tough rooms are just plain tough

[almeriastrings]

One other thought...you might find this helpful:

http://blog.shure.com/how-to-mic-a-bluegrass-band/