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Thread: Point of measuring on compensated bridge.

  1. #1
    Registered User Oliver R's Avatar
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    Default Point of measuring on compensated bridge.

    Hello,
    Always wondered about this.
    On your standard adjustable mandolin bridge thats compensated on each string where do you take your measurement from the 12th fret to? And even though the bridge is compensated would you still angle the bridge slightly?
    Cheers
    Oliver

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Point of measuring on compensated bridge.

    Usually if you are wanting to know the scale length you measure from the nut to the 12th fret and double it. Setting the bridge will be slightly more and will vary with each instrument and gauge of strings. Some mandolins the bridge may be slightly angled, some not. The saddle may use different compensation than another saddle. My bridge is slightly angled now as I have put on a heavier G string. I would prefer to make a new saddle with the G string compensated back further so the bridge sits straight, but haven't done it.
    THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!

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    Registered User Walt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Point of measuring on compensated bridge.

    Rather than relying completely on a measurement, I usually just do a rough measurement to get it in the ballpark, then adjust accordingly based on the intonation. Here's what I do (apologies if you already know how to do this):
    I'll install the bridge in the approximate location with one low G string and one high E string installed.
    Tune the strings to pitch and begin checking the intonation on the low string. Play a harmonic at the 12th fret, then fret the 12th fret. If the fretted note is flat in relation to the harmonic, move the bridge forward. If the fretted note is sharp in relation to the harmonic move the bridge backward. Keep doing this until the harmonic and fretted note match perfectly.
    Then repeat the process for the high string. You may or may not have to angle the bridge in order to intonate the high string properly. Be careful not to move the low side of the bridge while you're adjusting the high side. I'll usually go back and forth checking and repositioning a couple of times until it is as close as I can get it.
    Once you have the G and E strings intonated properly--and assuming the bridge is compensated correctly--you should be ready to install the rest of the strings.

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    Default Re: Point of measuring on compensated bridge.

    I agree with Walt. In the end, measuring just gets you in the ballpark. The intonation will dermine if the bridge is angled or straight.

  5. #5
    Registered User Oliver R's Avatar
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    Default Re: Point of measuring on compensated bridge.

    Yeah, thats pretty much what I have been doing, as you say its just a ball park measurement.
    Cheers
    Oliver

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    Default Re: Point of measuring on compensated bridge.

    I have never been able to get the A strings to intonate correctly when the other three are spot on so I do tune the A string so that it notes correctly at the 5th or 7th fret and that is close enough to get by...touchy little buggers aren`t they?

    Willie

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    Registered User mandowilli's Avatar
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    Default Re: Point of measuring on compensated bridge.

    I often wondered about the intonation problems that I could plainly hear on the mandolin and also adjusted tuning to just get by. Then I started playing the dobro and took some lessons with Billy Cardine who explained why a note on a just temperament instrument is played at different locations on the string depending on what degree of the scale it is.

    Here are some good explanations.

    https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/s...al-temperament
    willi

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  9. #8
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    Default Re: Point of measuring on compensated bridge.

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie Poole View Post
    I have never been able to get the A strings to intonate correctly when the other three are spot on so I do tune the A string so that it notes correctly at the 5th or 7th fret and that is close enough to get by...touchy little buggers aren`t they?

    Willie
    Willie, if your other strings are correct then I would change the saddle for the A strings. Hopefully they are sharp and carving some wood off to get them on would be easy. If they are flat you can add to the face and also correct for that, just not as easy.
    THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!

  10. #9
    Registered User sblock's Avatar
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    Default Re: Point of measuring on compensated bridge.

    Quote Originally Posted by mandowilli View Post
    I often wondered about the intonation problems that I could plainly hear on the mandolin and also adjusted tuning to just get by. Then I started playing the dobro and took some lessons with Billy Cardine who explained why a note on a just temperament instrument is played at different locations on the string depending on what degree of the scale it is.

    Here are some good explanations.

    https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/s...al-temperament
    True, but unfortunately, that is completely irrelevant to this thread! Besides, a mandolin is not a just-tempered instrument. It's an even-tempered instrument (12TET), just like a guitar or piano. In that respect, a mandolin is NOT like a Dobro or violin.

    On top of that fact, an octave is an octave is an octave, irrespective the type of temperament (just, even, or other)! You need to place the bridge saddle, along with its compensation, at a position such that the fretted string at the 12th fret sounds exactly one octave above the open string. This is usually done by comparing the fretted note with the harmonic at the 12th fret. (It can also be done with a tuner, if you must.) The correct position, determined in this way, applies to all the forms of temperament.

    You don't really need to do any measuring at all to carry this procedure out! You can start with the bridge base in approximately the right position (judged crudely, by eye), and then slide it from there until the fret and harmonic begin to sound alike, and hone it from there.

    Of course, not all compensated mandolin bridges will get this perfectly right for every string. The intonation also depends on the action height, the type and gauges of the strings you use, the degree of saddle compensations, and so on. You need to find a compromise bridge position that works best for you. Most folks tend to favor getting the higher strings (A & E) right (or, more correct) over getting the lower strings (G & D) right, since they tend to play on the A & E strings more in the higher neck positions.

    If you happen to find that it helps to tilt the bridge a little bit, to improve the overall intonation, then by all means do that. There is no rule at all that says you can't combine a compensated saddle with a bit of tilt. But it really should not be necessary in most cases.

  11. #10
    Registered User mandowilli's Avatar
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    Default Re: Point of measuring on compensated bridge.

    I was talking about the dobro being just tempered, never said that the mandolin was.

    And as far as it being irrelevant to this thead, thank you, now I know.
    willi

  12. #11
    Registered User David Houchens's Avatar
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    Default Re: Point of measuring on compensated bridge.

    I guess I'll save my response til things cool down.

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