Washburn L&H Style C No. 2181 Mandolin

[sleepyone]

New to this forum and hoping someone can point us in the right direction for an appraisal and sale of a mandolin my wife inherited from her father. As the title says, it a Washburn Style C mandolin. Based on some basic research I performed, I believe it was made sometime between 1917 and the 1920s based on the fact it has a Lyon and Healy tailpiece. The No. Is 2181. It appears to be all original in good condition with the normal wear for a 90 plus year old mandolin with no structural damage or repair work. It also has the original hardball case. It sounds good and plays well. My wife use to play it while giving mandolin lessons. We are in the Fort Worth area and would like to get it appraised and offer it for sale. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I can post some pictures if that would help.

[allenhopkins]

Some dealer listings are $1.9K at Mandolin Brothers, and this one for 1.5K at Chicago Music Exchange. Pictures would definitely help; dealer asking prices may not equal actual market prices.

[mrmando]

Photos of the label (if you can get a clear shot) and headstock can help in dating. Also check the patent dates on the pickguard and tailpiece base (if you slide off the fancy cover, there's a patent date underneath).

[sleepyone]

thanks for the info! I'll upload some pictures. The patent on the pick guard says PAT.11-12-18. The Patent Date under the tailpiece cover says PAT-4-15-19. That's funny because my wife's birthday is 4-15. Only part of the headtsock label is present. You can tell it says see AULT Music Company somewhere in Texas. Not sure if there are other letters before AULT.

Photos of the label (if you can get a clear shot) and headstock can help in dating. Also check the patent dates on the pickguard and tailpiece base (if you slide off the fancy cover, there's a patent date underneath).

[sleepyone]

Thank you, sir. I uploaded several pictures.

[Paul Hostetter]

Check this: http://aultfamily.name/3651.htm

And this: http://bit.ly/2haL153

[mrmando]

I think this is the first Style C I've seen with a music-store label on the headstock. Sometimes they'd put those labels inside the instrument next to the maker's label. It is incredibly cool to know which dealer in which city originally sold the mandolin. Many owners of vintage mandolins would give their eye teeth for such information if there were any way to get it.

It's hard to pin down most Lyon & Healys to a specific year, but we have several clues here to give us a time frame.

First, you have both patent dates, so you know it couldn't be earlier than 1919. Earlier mandolins say PAT APPL'D FOR on the tailpiece base.

Second, you have the plain straight-sided headstock. There were three different headstock styles on Style C's. This is the latest of the three, and was introduced in 1923. So we know this instrument couldn't be earlier than 1923.

Third, you have the label with the big WASHBURN across the top and the smaller Lyon & Healy logo. This label is listed in the Washburn book with the date 1925.

In the 1923–24 Washburn/L&H catalogs, the Style C is depicted with a plain Waverly cloud tailpiece rather than the fancy L&H lyre tailpiece. In the 1925 catalog, however, it's back to the lyre tailpiece.

But also in the 1925 catalog, the Style C is renamed the Style 5282.

So, if this says Style C and not Style 5282 on the label, it's most likely 1924 or early 1925, right before the name change.

The neck joins the body at the 9th fret, so we know this mandolin has the shorter 13" scale, which is consistent with a later date.

The case appears to be a Geib case made for a Gibson A-style mandolin. Original Lyon & Healy cases have a slightly different shape and are a better fit.

It is a little banged up but not bad; it's a shame not to have an original case, but at least it's a vintage case. Provided that it doesn't need repair of any kind, you should be able to get $1,750 for this. Possibly a bit more but not likely.

[mrmando]

Any wood experts want to weigh in on the back wood? Catalog specs say figured maple. Often Lyon & Healys have some nice birdseye going on; sometimes you'll see flame. But this? Looks like some birdseye on the bass side. Hard to say what's happening on the treble side. Sides may even be mismatched.

[brunello97]

The photo Paul linked to is so cool that it should be posted here for posteriority.

Mick

Briefly tried to track down the Ault delivery van...looks like a Chevy logo behind the short sax player up front. I'm no car expert--by any means-this link looks like a similar van: 1937 Chevy.

[allenhopkins]

Googling on "Ault Music Co. Fort Worth TX" results in a number of hits on brass instruments labeled "Ault"; it may have been the firm's policy to have instruments they sold prominently marked with the name.

Here's a post from a clarinet website, from a former Ault employee, discussing an Ault-labeled instrument:

Author: jbutler
Date: 2000-10-06 02:30
Ault Music was a music store located in downtown Ft. Worth, Texas. It was the mainstay of the town for many years until the family heirs sold it in the 60's or early 70's to an insurance company. (The owner of the insurance company bought the music store for his nephew to lease to own from him and later defaulted on it) The company was eventually absorbed into the C&S, Brook Mays, H&H music fold. Now, I don't know if this particular music store had anything to do with the clarinet brand you mention. I worked there in the mid 70's and did remember seeing a few of them around but would not try to make too much out it except for the name coincidence. Probably a "stencil" clarinet.
J. Butler

As Paul H's link shows, Klein Ault, the founder, was listed as a "musical merchant" in the Fort Worth city directory as early as 1920. He emigrated to Austria in 1948, with the subsequent history of the business as stated above.

[peter.coombe]

Any wood experts want to weigh in on the back wood? Catalog specs say figured maple. Often Lyon & Healys have some nice birdseye going on; sometimes you'll see flame. But this? Looks like some birdseye on the bass side. Hard to say what's happening on the treble side. Sides may even be mismatched.

Looks like Birdseye both sides to me.

[sleepyone]

That is a lot of great information. Thanks! I took it to Craig's Music in Weatherford yesterday to get an appraisal for insurance and resale value. I'll see if the appraiser provides this kind of information in his appraisal.

I think this is the first Style C I've seen with a music-store label on the headstock. Sometimes they'd put those labels inside the instrument next to the maker's label. It is incredibly cool to know which dealer in which city originally sold the mandolin. Many owners of vintage mandolins would give their eye teeth for such information if there were any way to get it.

It's hard to pin down most Lyon & Healys to a specific year, but we have several clues here to give us a time frame.

First, you have both patent dates, so you know it couldn't be earlier than 1919. Earlier mandolins say PAT APPL'D FOR on the tailpiece base.

Second, you have the plain straight-sided headstock. There were three different headstock styles on Style C's. This is the latest of the three, and was introduced in 1923. So we know this instrument couldn't be earlier than 1923.

Third, you have the label with the big WASHBURN across the top and the smaller Lyon & Healy logo. This label is listed in the Washburn book with the date 1925.

In the 1923–24 Washburn/L&H catalogs, the Style C is depicted with a plain Waverly cloud tailpiece rather than the fancy L&H lyre tailpiece. In the 1925 catalog, however, it's back to the lyre tailpiece.

But also in the 1925 catalog, the Style C is renamed the Style 5282.

So, if this says Style C and not Style 5282 on the label, it's most likely 1924 or early 1925, right before the name change.

The neck joins the body at the 9th fret, so we know this mandolin has the shorter 13" scale, which is consistent with a later date.

The case appears to be a Geib case made for a Gibson A-style mandolin. Original Lyon & Healy cases have a slightly different shape and are a better fit.

It is a little banged up but not bad; it's a shame not to have an original case, but at least it's a vintage case. Provided that it doesn't need repair of any kind, you should be able to get $1,750 for this. Possibly a bit more but not likely.

[mrmando]

Well, if your appraiser has a copy of Hubert Pleisjier's Washburn book and has read the sections on mandolin labels and carved mandolins, he or she could hypothetically come up with the same information. It might well appraise for a higher amount than we've mentioned here. A guitar dealer might be able to sell this for $2,250 or $2,500, but you'd get only 80 percent of that.