Clip-on mic setup, anyone?

[jawgee]

I use the DPA 4099 in the same position with good results.

Regarding feedback versus sound quality:
If the venue allows I like to have the mic a little farther from the soundhole - approx 3 cm - for more natural tone.
If feedback is an issue I move the mic closer. But then the low frequencies need more roll off.

I've read the opposite regarding feedback and distance from the soundhole. For me and my AT PRO35, it seems like there's a 50/50 chance of getting horrible feedback with the mic pointed at the soundhole.

If the venue has the monitors loud then I'll most definitely get feedback and I feel like I have to position myself like we used to have to do with the antennae on old TV sets to get the best reception.

I run the mic into a Helix floorboard and have a patch just for my mando where I have a parametric EQ notch out some low frequencies. That has helped some, but now I need to identify the offending high-pitched frequencies. Along with that, I need to experiment with the distance I have the mic from the soundhole.

I had one of those Cherub transducers attached as well and I was blending that with the mic sound, but it just didn't seem like it was worth the extra cord dangling down since the Cherub just sounded so thin and unnatural to me.

First world mando problems...

[lloving]

I used to use the DPA setup but couldn't keep from bumping it with my right hand. So I went with this from Naiant.com

[pops1]

When I use an external mic I never mic the sound hole, oval or ff. Usually I find the best sound is behind the bridge, centered toward the tailpiece. I have tried most locations and found this to be the best sound, for me. I haven't used a clip on mic, but should I do so this is where I would try for my placement.

[jawgee]

When I use an external mic I never mic the sound hole, oval or ff. Usually I find the best sound is behind the bridge, centered toward the tailpiece. I have tried most locations and found this to be the best sound, for me. I haven't used a clip on mic, but should I do so this is where I would try for my placement.

Thanks, pops1! I'm going to try that out to see if that helps with my tone and/or feedback issue.

[almeriastrings]

When I use an external mic I never mic the sound hole, oval or ff. Usually I find the best sound is behind the bridge, centered toward the tailpiece. I have tried most locations and found this to be the best sound, for me. I haven't used a clip on mic, but should I do so this is where I would try for my placement.

Where you get the sound you like is going to be a) Highly subjective and b) Highly dependent upon the mic in use - especially with regards to the type of proximity effect resulting from the pickup pattern, ranging from 'almost none' in the case of an omni to 'rather a lot' with a hypercardiod. The only way to know what works is to experiment a lot. My own preference is for a stand-mount condenser mic as I can 'work it' by moving in and out on it....but when I do use clip on mics (normally an ATM350 since my wife 'stole' my DPA4099 for her dulcimer ) I have them off the lower F-hole, and I'll use custom EQ curves on the console to reduce any unwanted 'bass boost'. On my instruments, I find that position gives me the kind of sound I'm looking for, but of course this will vary to taste, also according to the instrument itself.

[Victor Daniel]

I currently use the Pyle clip on mic and I am very pleased with the sound especially at its price point. The fiddler in my band used one, let me borrow it and there was no turning back. Before that I played into a stationary condenser mic and the ease of mobility with a clip on in well worth it.

I also own a baggs radius and really dislike it. I used it for years for live gigs that were too loud for the stand alone condenser mic (this was pre clip on days) It is very finicky with proper placement on the top. It also needs a lot of EQ to get it to sound decent. It would get a weird ring on certain frequencies. Overall kind of a pain in the a**.

I installed a k&k a few years ago and I like it much better than the baggs, although the clip on mic is pretty feedback resistant and I rarely have to use the pickup anymore.

[JimKo]

The one criticism is deal breaker, though, removing that to put the mandolin in the case would be a PITA I think.

Mark, Just thought I would add that I don't have to remove the mount, just the mic, to fit in the case. Have tried 2 different cases and no no problem with either of them.

[Toni Schula]

I've read the opposite regarding feedback and distance from the soundhole. For me and my AT PRO35, it seems like there's a 50/50 chance of getting horrible feedback with the mic pointed at the soundhole.

If the venue has the monitors loud then I'll most definitely get feedback and I feel like I have to position myself like we used to have to do with the antennae on old TV sets to get the best reception.

I run the mic into a Helix floorboard and have a patch just for my mando where I have a parametric EQ notch out some low frequencies. That has helped some, but now I need to identify the offending high-pitched frequencies. Along with that, I need to experiment with the distance I have the mic from the soundhole.

I had one of those Cherub transducers attached as well and I was blending that with the mic sound, but it just didn't seem like it was worth the extra cord dangling down since the Cherub just sounded so thin and unnatural to me.

First world mando problems...

Yes, this putting the mic closer to the soundhole can easily be overdone. If I stick the mic literally inside the hole, feedback is almost guaranteed ;-)

Also, if I move the mic closer from let's say 5cm (2") to 2-3 cm (1") I must also reduce the gain (or move down the fader) of that channel, of course. Closer mic provides a hotter signal, which allows for less amplification. And this is it what reduces the likelyhood of feedback in the end.

[Mark Gunter]

AT PRO35 + DPA clip arrived just now, I'll experiment with these tonight.

[Mark Gunter]

And yeah, the rule is "no pics, didn't happen" - so here it is, I've got my setup done on the Collings and ready for some tests. I've been reading with interest the strap-keeper thread, since I've had a couple issues (but no damages) with this, and so I used almeriastrings' wire-tie method on my strap, and included the "safety cord" tip as well; no more worries there

[Beanzy]

I like the ‘belt & braces’ approach with the strap luckily it’s not an issue here as I don’t use one.
Which in turn meant I looked at the mic placement and thought “but that’s just about where my arm goes”.
We’re definitely a diverse lot in the world of wee plucked things.

[Mark Gunter]

Viva la difference Eoin, but I have to wonder how you're arm could be there, that low on the treble side - are you a lefty, or do you mean the follow-through when you strum?

I've been testing this mic for a bit now, and so far I absolutely love it. Tone can be tweaked nicely just with options on my amp, and by moving the mic a bit, and sound reproduction and volume is very good. As for position, the one I showed above didn't work for me for several reasons, one of which is that on some occasions I go really wide with a strum flourish and I hit it. Not a problem at all when picking melodies though. I solved my issues for the most part by moving the clamp around, about in the position it would be in if clipped to a finger guard, and laid the mike down a good deal more.

[Beanzy]

No Mark, I’m one of those high holders, a not terribly fashionable, but very effective hold.
The mandolin just rests that edge on the inside of the crook of the elbow & the arm then sits in-line with the strings.
It hardly even gets gripped, just sits there nice & steady.

The new position you mention makes a lot of sense.
You don’t want to be feeling constrained n a moment of exhuberance, got to be able to let it swing.
Better for those windmills.

[Mike Snyder]

AT Pro 35 to an ART tube pre, the 35 alligator clamp on the tonegard and the mic right at the treble f-hole, lower end. No feedback as long as the monitors are at sane levels. I use a bit of low-tack painters tape to keep the gooseneck from shifting about.

[Polecat]

Here's a link to my solution: https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/s...=1#post1482503
The Mic is an AKG CK99L lavalier mic, the "mic clip" is the rubber part of an XLR plug designed to protect the cable where it enters the plug (I'm sure it's got a proper name?!). The clamp is a viola chinrest clamp with a piece of ebony cut to fit, with a hole tapped with an M5 thread (ebony is close-grained and hard enough for this). I tapped an M5 thread on one end of a piece of 4mm brass rod and bent it to a suitable shape. The rubber "mic clip" does a relatively good job damping "handling noise"

And here's a link to an A/B test recording of the AKG CK99L compared with the AKG C411 contact mic (=pickup) https://soundcloud.com/polecatmandocafe/sets/akg

Although there can be little doubt that the lavalier mic sounds "better" on the recordings, I prefer the C411 for live work because a) it is much less feedback-prone; b) I can't hit it with my right hand; and c) there is much less handling noise and pick-click. With fairly minimal eq adjustments it sounds as good as I need (tastes vary...). I play direct into the mixer (Yamaha MG series) without a preamp, and am very happy with the setup. Personally, I have never used a piezo pickup who's sound I've been happy with, but as I said, it's a matter of taste.

[Mark Gunter]

Thanks Polecat!

1. Interesting solution, thanks for the pics and explanation in that thread.
2. Interesting comparison tracks
3. Great picking on Little Wing and Da Slockit Light

Looks like a Home Run

[fiddleround]

Not sure if I managed to attach the photo, but I am using a DPA 4061 that lays in the top of the adjustable bridge on my 1917 Gibson F4. I run it through the top groove of the tail piece, so the tailpiece cover mostly holds it in place. It takes a couple of minutes to set it up but only I play out on the mandolin 1 or 2x a month.

As others have noted I found the ATM 350 clip difficult to keep in place on mando and I think the DPA sounds better. The ATM is still my go-to mic for the fiddle, and for serious fiddle gigs (where I am not doing sound) I often jam the DPA into the ATM 350 clip foam so I can use the more feedback resistant ATM 350 for monitors and both mics for mains.

Nothing against the more permanent (and professional looking) setups previously listed, but these mics are already paid for!

[mandocanoe]

Here's another idea for attaching a clip-on microphone. I got a friend to make an extension to my arm rest that goes over the tailpiece (that's where my arm goes anyway) and lifts at the treble end. That makes a great place to clip the microphone. Works well for me.

[Mark Gunter]

I recently got a private message asking about my mic setup, and it sent me looking up this old thread - which is full of great photos of the setups folk have used!

In reading back through this, I found the discussion of the Baggs Radius interesting. Some folks love them (sometimes even citing that Sierra Hull uses, or at least once used, the Radius), while other folks find them to be a terrible choice. I'm not writing this to knock a particular brand or solution, but to make it clear why I chose to invest in a decent clip on mic and to sell the Baggs Radius that came to me free along with a Collings I had bought.

For me, it came down to my own ignorance and limitations. I'm no great sound man, and lack knowledge of much of this stuff. For me, the AT PRO 35 was a beautiful "plug & play" solution. It sounds like a million bucks whether played through an amp or through an audio interface for recording. The Baggs, on the other hand, sounded pretty bad, no matter where I used it - and I didn't use it much because of that. I just don't have the skills, the knowledge or the equipment to make it sound good, though apparently some people do.

I like the AT PRO 35 well enough to recommend it as one solution for anyone who asks. Easy peasy.

[almeriastrings]

Yeah... the AT PRO35 really is an excellent mic. I have worked with a few Sax players who really love them too. I ended up buying 6 of them because I find them so useful and versatile. Recently sold my DPA's, by the way... stuck with the PRO 35's and ATM 350's... they simply 'work' and sound great. Well-built too... I have some that have been worked pretty hard but they keep on going! Never fail to impress sound-wise. One classic mic, if you ask me...

[Homer Savard]

I use a Shure sax mic clipped onto the pick guard.
Works just fine for me.

[RichardF]

This is a most interesting discussion. However, I'll plug the Fishman equipped Breedlove into the Bodyrez and the Mooer reverb and see you when you've found the correct spot to place the mic, told the rest of the band to turn down and sorted the feedback at the desk, much later.
I know many won't agree, especially with the lack of acoustic quality sound, but that's what works for me.