String Spacing at the Nut

[Stevo75]

I picked up a used mandolin recently and the string spacing at the nut seems odd to me. I can't put my finger on it yet (no pun intended) but I think both the spacing between courses and the space between strings on the same course is not what I'm used to.

The nut width is 1 1/8" and the total space between outer G and outer E is about the same as my other mandolin (about 0.96-0.97"), so that's not it.

I think the strings on the same course are closer together and so the space between courses is further apart.

Is there any standard on this or a rule of thumb? Maybe I'll just get used to it. I am getting some buzzing when I get the action down where it should be but that could be the frets (I doubt they are two strings on the same course hitting together).

I've seen some weird string spacing, especially on some Gibsons where the space between strings on the same course seems ridiculously large, so maybe this is an issue where there is no logic and all personal preference...

[pops1]

I don't think there is any standard. Personal preference of the person making the nut. Sometimes I will space the plain strings closer than the wound strings, but the space between the courses will be the same. If it is comfortable to play, that is what is important. Strings too close can buzz against each other when playing hard.

[Randi Gormley]

I bought a mandolin that had something odd in the spacing and I finally just had a luthier cut me a new nut. That's always an option.

[O. Apitius]

I created a customizable Excel file for calculating string locations at the nut. You just plug in the known values in the beige squares and the calculator does the rest. Unfortunately, I have not been able to make it work on the web. Here's what it looks like though.



I like to keep the gap between string pairs and the gap between courses consistent. That means the center of the slots will not be equal in order to account for the string diameters.

[Stevo75]

I bought a mandolin that had something odd in the spacing and I finally just had a luthier cut me a new nut. That's always an option.

I was thinking that, but then what would I tell the luthier? Cut it the normal way? Maybe there is no "normal" way.

I could take in my other mandolin and tell him to make it like that one...

[colorado_al]

Sounds like a trip to Woodsongs Lutherie is in order. Those guys are great and I'm sure if you bring in both mandolins they can tell you what is going on and likely could fix it for you with a new nut cut to what you prefer.

[pops1]

I could take in my other mandolin and tell him to make it like that one...

If you like the nut spacing on your other mandolin then I would agree take them both and have it duplicated. Usually I will match any mandolin nut that I am playing to the rest so the feel is consistent.

[Geoff B]

I see you are in Boulder. I am a mandolin builder in Denver and would be happy to look at it/make a new one for you if you want. If your mando comes from a small shop it may be worth talking to the builder about it... If it was one of mine I know I'd love the chance to make it great for the new owner. I've heard woodsongs does great work too, and being closer for you may be worth bringing it to them as well.

[colorado_al]

Geoff makes killer mandolins! If you have the opportunity, have him do the work, and while you wait play all of his fine instruments. I had a particularly fun time playing an Octave mandolin of his at a festival last month. Well worth the visit, even if you aren't in need of a tune up.

[Stevo75]

Thanks Geoff, I will PM you. It's a Northfield mandolin, although I think one of the previous owners had a new nut made to his/her personal preferences.

[bennyb]

This may or may not help the OP, but this thread has pics and dimensions from Rolfe(Phoenix Mandolins), Graham McDonald, and Tom Ellis detailing specs for string spacing at the nut. Also, there was another cafe member who still apparently visits occasionally(Jerry Byers) who posted a spreadsheet(which I downloaded, Thanks, Jerry) which performed very similarly to the one O. Apitius displayed above. I'll try to link to the pics in the thread mentioned.

[sblock]

I am attaching two files I made, based on the measured nut spacings from a Northfield F5 and a Weber F5.

On the Weber, the inter-string (string ctr to string ctr) gaps are 5/32" for the A and E pairs, and 7/64" for the G and D pairs. The inter-course spacings (string ctr to string ctr) are 5/32" (E to A), 3/16" (A to D) and 3/16" (D to G), with 7/64 on the edges.

On the Northfield, the inter-string (string ctr to string ctr) gaps are 3/32" (the same) for all four pairs. The inter-course spacings (string ctr to string ctr) are 3/16", and also the same for all three gaps. There are 3/32" to the edges.

These nuts are based on the D'Addario J-74 string gauges (11, 15, 26, and 40 thou)

My Pomeroy is yet again different, with a graduated spacing, different for each course. There would seem to be no dominant standards for nuts.

See here:

[Stevo75]

This is what I have on my Northfield (this must have been modified by one of the previous owners):

6/64 between G strings, 5/64 between the D and A strings, and 4/64 between E strings (center to centers right at the edge of the nut).

So that sounds like they are a bit close. Especially the E strings. I can tell by looking at them that they're close. But even the G strings should probably be more like 7/64. As a result, the gaps between string courses feel larger to me compared to my Summit.

On my Summit, the inter-strings gaps are all right about 6/64 for all string courses (center to center).

Both mandolins are about .97-.98" at the nut from outer G to outer E.

[Stevo75]

Thanks everyone for the pics, files, info. I will probably get the nut re-cut (or probably need a new nut) to have something more like 6/64 to 7/64ths for the G and D string spacing and 5/64 to 6/64 for the A and E. What I have now on the Northfield seem narrow, although I'd probably get used to it. I do notice the gap between G and D courses when fretting the A "power chord" at the second fret with the tip of my index finger. It would be nice to narrow that spacing a bit.

[ajh]

What I have been using for quite awhile now are some proportional guide/templates by someone that went by "Bluestem" on the Cafe years ago. They are for the bridge and nut spacings...you make a copy of the pdf (scale makes no difference when you copy it). Cut it down and lay it over the fretboard and butt it up to the nut. Kind of hard to describe but it works really well (for me at least). I tried to find a link to it but it looks like the site has disappeared. I do have a pdf but don't want to post it publicly due to possibility of it being protected somehow. If you (or anyone else) are interested, send me a PM and I'll shoot you a copy.

[Tom Haywood]

A while back, I spent several days measuring the nut slots and feeling the spacing on as many mandolins as I could get my hands on. Several by the same makers, such as Weber and Kentucky, and going back through my records of the mandolins I've built. My goal was to discover the standard spacing, determine what spacing feels best to me, and figure out how to adjust the spacing for different hands. It started with making a nut for a new mandolin, going through my usual meticulous process of working out the math for the nut width, and then carefully transferring that with some necessary compromises onto the nut. However, I read a luthier's comment that he just eyeballs everything and cuts away. Turned out that every single mandolin I measured had slightly different spacing, even if the neck width at the nut was the same. It gave credence to just eyeballing it and make a different nut if it doesn't feel right to the owner. I also discovered that the problem of single-finger double stops was not as big a deal as I had thought. So, we quickly get used to the feel and how to play it. I concluded that the overall dimensions of the neck, including any radius of the fretboard, is a bigger factor in determining how the spacing feels, provided that the spacing has some symmetry and isn't haphazard.

[John Cadd]

To learn more about your fingertips get a piece of glass or perspex and press your fingers against the surface while looking from the other side. Watch how the fingertip squashes against the surface.Make a few marks and measure them . Fingers are all different anyway . How short are your nails. Work it all out and see what fits . It can be more confusing than you think .

[jmagill]

The string spacing I prefer is not equidistant; some pairs are closer together, and some courses are farther apart than others. I've found that the only way to get the nut spacing 'just right' for how I play is to make my own nuts.

I think that whatever string spacing I might give a luthier, slots that are within 1/64" (less than half a millimeter) of what I specified would be deemed 'within tolerance', but not for me. I want it perfect. So, I got some tools and some bone, and got to work.

It took a little practice and I wasted a few nut blanks experimenting, but once I got things dialed in, I was able to make nuts for all of my mandolins that are EXACTLY the way I want them.