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Thread: New (old) waldzither

  1. #1
    Orrig Onion HonketyHank's Avatar
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    Default New (old) waldzither

    Introducing my new old Böhm waldzither. Bought on eBay for $52. Seems like it may well be a keeper despite appearances. I did remove about a pound of gunk and grime.



    I would welcome comments on the instrument and how to set it up better. I am just kind of doing trial and error. This thing is built like a tank inside. Maybe that's why the cracks do not appear to me to be affecting anything other than looks. Of course, I don't know any better, so maybe fixing them would make an improvement.
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  3. #2
    The Amateur Mandolinist Mark Gunter's Avatar
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    Default Re: New (old) waldzither

    Very cool, Henry
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    Registered User mandoweather's Avatar
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    Default Re: New (old) waldzither

    Very interesting! Thanks for sharing.
    Bill

    Collings MT
    Eastman 315

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    Default Re: New (old) waldzither

    Way cool new to you, old instrument!
    I hope that you lots of fun with it

    Joseph Baker

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    Registered User Tavy's Avatar
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    Default Re: New (old) waldzither

    Love those old Bohm's, they sound great IMO.

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    but that's just me Bertram Henze's Avatar
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    Default Re: New (old) waldzither

    Congrats to acquiring one of the great old designs that started off many musicians of the 70s Irish folk wave before affordable OMs and zouks were produced in sufficient numbers.

    Andy Irvine went this route, too, and as you can see he never bothered about that 9th string...

    the world is better off without bad ideas, good ideas are better off without the world

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    The Amateur Mandolinist Mark Gunter's Avatar
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    Default Re: New (old) waldzither

    I really liked the sound of St Anne's Reel on that zitherbeeste
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    Registered User Martin Jonas's Avatar
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    Default Re: New (old) waldzither

    Looks and sounds good!

    I like old waldzithers a lot, although the Preston tuners on the Böhm models are a pain. Waldzithers made in Saxony tended to have conventional headstocks (some slotted, some flat) and these are easier to set up.

    Given the relatively long scale length of the Böhm, I would suggest setting it up in (G)DAEB tuning with a single low G string. The high B is very useful for extending first position by a fifth. Alternatively, (G)DAEA gives a lot of good open string harmonies and double stops for Irish or Scottish tunes. DAEB is one full step up from CGDA -- close enough to change tuning from OM to mandola without restringing when you want a mandola instead.

    That's what I do with my 1925 Zimmermann waldzither, which has a somewhat shorter scale than yours (43 cm/17"). Here are examples of solo waldzither recordings in these three tunings -- same strings in each case, i.e. simply a matter of quick retuning on the day rather than restringing:

    (G)DAEB tuning: Lochanside (Scottish pipe march)
    (G)DAEA tuning: Flett From Flotta (another Scottish pipe march)
    CGDA tuning: Bourree from Bach's Cello Suite No. 3
    CGDA tuning: Musette (Eileen Pakenham)

    I know what you mean about the zinginess in the top strings. To some extent a nasal tone is part of the characteristic sound of the waldzither, although yours sounds a bit more so than I would expect -- you may want to have a close look at the nut. Does the Böhm have a zero fret? If yes, changing tuning from open-C to fifths should be fine. If not, you may have to cut a new nut.

    Have fun with your new toy!

    Martin

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    Orrig Onion HonketyHank's Avatar
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    Default Re: New (old) waldzither

    Martin, here's a shot of the nut. Basically it is a very sturdy fret with very tiny cuts to hold the strings in place.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I have waldo tuned like a mandola (CGDA) right now but I will retune up 2 half steps today. That should bring the string tension right up to the same tension those strings (D'Ad WJ74) would be on a standard mandolin. I suspect that will reduce the floppiness, especially of the bass strings. And I do plan to experiment with DAEA tuning. Not sure if that highest string will stay in its nut 'slot' under higher tension so the DAEA tuning might be ideal.

    Thanks for the tune links. I was very pleased to see and hear Flett From Flotta - a gem I found at thesession.org last summer. I thought I was the only one who knew that one.

    Thanks for all the comments, folks. Anybody have any comments on those gaping cracks on the top? Would a repair job deliver any noticeable sound or playability improvements?
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  14. #10
    Registered User Martin Jonas's Avatar
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    Default Re: New (old) waldzither

    Quote Originally Posted by HonketyHank View Post
    Martin, here's a shot of the nut. Basically it is a very sturdy fret with very tiny cuts to hold the strings in place.

    I have waldo tuned like a mandola (CGDA) right now but I will retune up 2 half steps today. That should bring the string tension right up to the same tension those strings (D'Ad WJ74) would be on a standard mandolin. I suspect that will reduce the floppiness, especially of the bass strings. And I do plan to experiment with DAEA tuning. Not sure if that highest string will stay in its nut 'slot' under higher tension so the DAEA tuning might be ideal.
    Thanks for the photo. Looks like one of the A strings isn't sitting in its slot. This is really a metal nut rather than a zero fret, so there is a possibility of buzzing in the nut slots especially if they were cut for different string gauges. Tone on the treble strings may improve if you use a fret file to crown that "nut" to make it a proper zero fret level with the other frets and place a bone, wooden or metal string spacer on the tuner side of the zero fret.

    I'm not familiar with WJ74 strings -- do you mean EJ74? I haven't seen your waldzither, but I would be concerned with J74/EJ74 on a waldzither tuned up to the same tension as on a mandolin. These are flattops which usually respond better to lower string tension. I can't remember what gauges I use, but I'm pretty sure the tension is well below J74 on a carved archtop mandolin.

    Martin

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    Mindin' my own bizness BJ O'Day's Avatar
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    Default Re: New (old) waldzither

    Hank,
    Is the ninth string used as a triple chord or is it a single string tuned independently? Can it be used as a drone like a 5 string banjo?
    Cool instrument. I'm glad you have it and are using it. It would be a shame if someone bought it to hang on the wall.
    BJ

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    Orrig Onion HonketyHank's Avatar
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    Default Re: New (old) waldzither

    Martin: yes, EJ74 (typo). And that A string was out of its 'slot'. Good catch.

    BJ: Ninth string is lower pitched and played independently. So this thing is designed to have four pairs and a single bass string. Theoretically, I guess one could tune it like a banjo, but it would probably require a lot of experimentation as to string guages and open string notes. The open string notes might be determined by how high you can tune a steel string before it snaps.

    But my five string banjo is in the closet for good reason, so I don't think I am going in that direction.

    Ultimately, I would not be too proud to just omit the ninth string if it gets in the way more than it gets used on purpose.
    New to mando? Click this link -->Newbies to join us at the Newbies Social Group.

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  17. #13
    Registered User Louise NM's Avatar
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    Default Re: New (old) waldzither

    Nice catch, Henry.

    Waldo looks like he was played a lot for many years, and I'll bet he's glad to have fresh strings and a good cleaning.

    My mandola uses J72 strings, and is tuned CGDA. I wonder how those would work on Waldo.

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    Orrig Onion HonketyHank's Avatar
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    Default Re: New (old) waldzither

    Louise, I think the J72's would work for the classic mandola tuning, but they would probably be fairly tight. I'd have to check the tension calculator. The J74's I have on there now are a bit loose and floppy and I was thinking of either going to J75s or heavier or bringing the pitch up to DAEB. The J72s are pretty heavy - they might even work if I wanted to make Waldo into a short scale OM.

    I brought the pitch up by a half tone today and it sounds good and appears to be holding up well. Tomorrow I'll probably sneak it up to DAEB although I am really interested in trying out DAEA tuning.
    New to mando? Click this link -->Newbies to join us at the Newbies Social Group.

    Just send an email to rob.meldrum@gmail.com with "mandolin setup" in the subject line and he will email you a copy of his ebook for free (free to all mandolincafe members).

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    Oscar Stern s11141827's Avatar
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    Default Re: New (old) waldzither

    Optima makes good Waldzither strings in both Single Loop End design for versions w/ Guitar machine head tuners, & the Double loop end versions for ones w/ Portuguese Guitar style tuners, & they come in various lengths to accommodate the various sizes & lengths so make sure you measure the length of your instrument Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	207400so that you can choose the right length of string. These Optima strings are Silver Plated Copper so they're less likely to tarnish & corrode than bronze strings, plus they have a lower tension making them easier on the left hand. The traditional Tuning for the Waldzither is Open C Major (C3, G3, C4, E4, G4) which is essentially the same as a 5 string Banjo w/ a capo on the 5th Fret (or a Banjeaurine), however the 5th string (still the root note of the Chord) is 2 octaves lower than it normally would be. Other than that the Chord Shapes on a Waldzither in the traditional Tuning are the same as a Banjo, they're just going to sound out a Perfect Fourth higher than they normally do. For example your Open G Major Chord becomes a a C Major, C Major becomes F Major, etc.

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