Bluegrass Cajon or Cajón

[DavidKOS]

Hmmm.. I have seen cajon players being endured for 10 minutes in an ITM session, but no player of bongos who survived more that 5 seconds before being shut down by multiple stares of death and frightened into running, overtaking the spoon player.

Was that a hippie/beatnik/drum circle bongo player, or was it a real trained Latin percussionist that has played in Salsa dance bands?

Yep, one can be quite subtle and varied with a box. Nothing says "Latin" more than congas (tumba, conga, and quinto to avoid police action ) - we endured that in the 70s when every rock band had de rigeuer congero, or at least someone emulating one tapping along on them..

The particular timbre of the Latin drums have a distinct quality. Youd do better with djembe, or shakey egg..

*oh, I see that David was *suggesting* the latin sound. Never mind

I guess it's a matter of taste.

I played tres and bass in salsa dance bands for decades. To me, well played bongo, conga, timbales, etc., are an amazingly wonderful rhythm section.

However, that is with well trained percussionists that take the music and instrument seriously.

I have also heard those same instruments played so badly that I want to scream "STOP".

My Cuban professional percussionist buddy, who played with Cachao among others, said that hand drums were the only instrument he knew of that people would buy and then assume they could just play....no one sits in a circle with band instruments they don't know how to play, so why do they do it with drums?

"we endured that in the 70s when every rock band had de rigeuer congero, or at least someone emulating one tapping along on them"

I certainly recall when Santana hit - of course they had well trained Latin percussionists - but as you point out, all sorts of guys bought a conga and all of a sudden could instantly "play"...sort of.

When I played in bands like that I could tell who had actually studied the congas, knew the right hand techniques to make the instrument sound good, and knew enough rhythms to be an asset, and also knew when to not play.

"The particular timbre of the Latin drums have a distinct quality. Youd do better with djembe"

That is the point. The skin headed drums sound great when played well. The djembe has as much tone color as a the Caribbean drums, too.

Maybe the reason the cajon fits in is that it is no nondescript tonally on its own, that it doesn't instantly add a musical flavor from another village.

[Bertram Henze]

Was that a hippie/beatnik/drum circle bongo player, or was it a real trained Latin percussionist that has played in Salsa dance bands?

Nobody had time (nor indeed interest) to find out. I remember his playing was obnoxiously loud and sounded as un-Irish as possible. You know, we ITM players are mostly cut out to distinguish what is Irish and what isn't and therefore recognize a trespasser when we hear him, but where exactly he's coming from -

I guess if Carlos Santana stumbled in our session he'd be quietly ignored, unless he managed to leave the sense of sweaty heat and rum sweetness out of his playing and replace it with a breezy, salty chill and turf fire smoke...

Here is an example of a bongo-ish percussion that somehow manages to sound like a bodhran and thus can survive, but don't ask me how that player would fare in, say, Havanna:

...and yes, that's Sarah Jarosz playing a Weber OM and bringing in some mandolin content, at last

[Frankdolin]

Nope. Not for me, not now or ever. Drums and mandolins are like oil and water. Just say no!!!

[roberto]

or as chet baker said, "it takes a pretty good drummer to be better than no drummer at all."

lol right!

[Charlieshafer]

?

Is this a Scots session? Who would ever be allowed to bring a piano accordion into an Irish session? It has to be a button accordion, either B/C or C#/D. The bongos are the least offensive thing here!

[Bertram Henze]

Is this a Scots session? Who would ever be allowed to bring a piano accordion into an Irish session? It has to be a button accordion, either B/C or C#/D. The bongos are the least offensive thing here!

It's from the British TV series Transatlantic Sessions. The song is Scottish Gaelic, musicians are from everywhere.
A piano accordion presents no problem if the player can play it. It's not the looks, it's never the looks, just the sound.

Percussion instruments have that fatal tendency to attract people who think a simple-looking instrument is simple to play and all you have to do is bang on it because that's what the jungle tribe do.

[catmandu2]

I played tres and bass in salsa dance bands ...

Me too (bass), in trad salsa - lots of Joe Arroyo. Hard to keep a large band with horns and all together though.. Percussion/clave is primary in Latin/salsa, so ya it's not just banging on some drums. I still assuage my love for latin with accordian - about the only instrument that enables a solo player to approach deploying all the components of the many great latin forms - without a percussion section. I'm a drummer/percussionist (or, was) so it's vital to have an outlet; accordian is a great rhythmic machine. I used to study deploying the components on drum kit, samba a la chick corea, peter erskine, et al = fun.

*

Maybe the reason the cajon fits in is that it is no nondescript tonally on its own, that it doesn't instantly add a musical flavor from another village.

Yep, the fruit crate/cajon provides many different sounds/tonal colors - from brushes to tumbao. Easy to make it fit in a wide range of settings.

[catmandu2]

- about the only instrument that enables a solo player...

I forgot about piano! Or gtr...harp too.. though being a wind instrument acc provides different (and from a free reed player's perspective "better" for rhythmic music) - quality..

[Rodney Riley]

https://www.lousondrums.com/ Then there’s this

[MikeEdgerton]

It isn't bluegrass. Some of the players are well known in the genre though. The first time I remember seeing a cajon played that really struck me as right was this video. You can dislike Taylor Swift but damn this mix is excellent and the cajon fits.

[pops1]

Hey Pops....You are thinking of Harmonious Wail.

You are so very right, I knew something wasn't right when I typed it, but couldn't put my finger on it. Sometimes the mind will kick in, other times such as this, it takes someone to help me. Thanks

[Charlieshafer]

A piano accordion presents no problem if the player can play it. It's not the looks, it's never the looks, just the sound..

Oh, come on. It's gotta be a Paolo Soprani grey box from the '50's. If not that, a Cairdin or a Castagnari. You know it's true. The ITM police are watching.

[MikeEdgerton]

If the accordion is missing a rhinestone is it still acceptable?

[Bertram Henze]

Oh, come on. It's gotta be a Paolo Soprani grey box from the '50's. If not that, a Cairdin or a Castagnari. You know it's true. The ITM police are watching.

If there's police, the Paolo Soprani alone won't help you; you'll have to show severe symptoms of lung cancer that must accompany it. And with a Castagnari, you better constantly grin at the other musicians, or else someone might suspect that you're actually not Sharon Shannon.

But it's Phil Cunningham who opened the doors to piano accordion players and gave you a generous permit - if you play like him, that is.

[gspiess]

Ha! 'just got an LP cajon for my birthday. I'll sit it next to my bluegrass congalita set.

[catmandu2]

Anyone have a port. guitar want to trade? Dr H you've got to have an extra one laying about -

I played my 5-str mndln (citn) yesterday first time in a year.. thnx cafe

[bjewell]

It's all part of the communistic plot to ruin the minds of our chillun... You want rhythm? I got Tater-Boy Bobbie over the corner there to do a dancing in his tap shoes for ya. Bobbie! Bobbie! Get over here and make rhythm for the nice man...

[Charlieshafer]

If there's police, the Paolo Soprani alone won't help you; you'll have to show severe symptoms of lung cancer that must accompany it. And with a Castagnari, you better constantly grin at the other musicians, or else someone might suspect that you're actually not Sharon Shannon.

But it's Phil Cunningham who opened the doors to piano accordion players and gave you a generous permit - if you play like him, that is.

I have that Joe Cooley recording! Mick McAuley had his gray Soprani when he was with us for Solas' gig. And Cunningham mentored a lot of younger musicians from Scotland also. One group Phil mentored, made up of the four Johnson sisters out of Edinburgh came to tour the states a couple of times and ended up staying with us for a week. Tons of fun with them. Anyway, I guess the cajon is the new bohdrain, play it right and you're ok, but mess up...

[foldedpath]

Anyway, I guess the cajon is the new bohdrain, play it right and you're ok, but mess up...

A cajon is better than a bodhran in at least one respect. You can't do that annoying chromatic scale run by pushing on the goat skin to change the pitch.

[Alex Orr]

Meh... I suppose it's better than that guy who brings spoons or a washboard to a bluegrass jam, but I still strongly prefer there to be NO percussion instruments in a bluegrass jam. I think in a band setting it could be a different story, but I truly despise having percussion instruments at a BG jam.

[lukmanohnz]

Love this.

[Jess L.]

... I still strongly prefer there to be NO percussion instruments in a bluegrass jam. ...

But, but, what about the mandolin doing chop chords? Purely percussive, isn't it? To be honest, the way some of 'em play it, I could do without that as well, I think it detracts from the music. A real drum or even one of these wooden box thingies actually *might* sound better than some of the awful heavy-handed repetitive non-syncopated non-interesting dull boring chop chop chop (argh!!!) stuff I've heard on some occasions.

I guess it's like anything else, it depends on the player.

(I'll get my coat.)

[Jess L.]

We debut at #5 in Google for the search term Bluegrass Cajon. Our work here is done.

Lol! Cool.

[James Miller]

A trio of ... a mandolin, a ukulele bass, and a cajon.

[Randi Gormley]

OK, to be honest, a ceili band often uses a full drum set, snare, block, whatnot. but that's a different thing. And as someone made the argument above, what a band does is a different thing entirely from what goes on in a pickup session (or jam, possibly, although I'm just extrapolating for that; I've never been to one). I've had the discussion with someone who isn't versed in ITM that anything that a soloist guitarist does on an album with ITM musicians would fly in a session and couldn't convince him that it depends.... that such a soloist would probably modify what s/he does if they drifted into an ordinary session unless asked to solo. Some people murmur about police (ITM or bluegrass), but there really is a distinct sound that a genre is either known for or wants to emulate and that's not a bad thing by definition. Purists want to have fun, too, after all.