Fingers too fat to fret with

[Mark Gunter]

Yep.

[Mark Gunter]

When I saw this picture of Willie my first thought went to the oft-heard complaint or fear that maybe one's fingers are incapable of playing mandolin. In most cases, that's not true ... though it may seem really difficult to get clean sound when starting out.

I remember when I started on guitar many years ago, how difficult it was to finger a chord and get clean sound without deadening strings, much less being able to change chords smoothly in time with the beat! In the beginning, I had to reference a method book chord diagram, carefully place my fingers, play each string separately and try to micro-adjust the fingers as necessary to get rid of any dead note. It was a bit grueling when I think about it. Been so long ago it's easy to forget those days.

When I began to learn mandolin in earnest, a bit over two years ago, there were similar difficulties due to (1) unfamiliar chord shapes, and (2) smaller scale of everything. After all this time, I'm beginning to be able to hold a melody note on, say, the A string and still be able to have the E string ring when I play it. Chords are another matter; I can make them and switch them on time with the few I've really gotten down, but learning new chord shapes is still pretty difficult just because it's all new on the mandolin.

Listing here my own thoughts on big fingers playing tiny mandolins. Maybe something here will help somebody. And by all means, add your own two cents to the discussion.

1. Practice makes perfect. Okay, so that's kind of a pat statement; sorry, but it is true. Remembering how tough it was to learn guitar chords as a beginner as opposed to how easy and second nature they are now, encourages me that if I persevere, any mandolin-playing-problems I have now will be resolved in time. No matter how difficult it seems now, or how torturous it feels to finger chords and get the strings to ring, eventually it will become easy and not worthy of a second thought, if I persevere.

2. Others can, so can I. Think of Mike Marshall and other sausage-fingered mandolin enthusiasts and virtuosos you've seen who can do it. If they can learn to play with the handicap of big or fat fingers, so can I. It can help to ask them how they dealt with it starting out and what advice they have for beginners.

3. You don't have to play all the strings all the time. When playing melody, you're typically playing a string of single notes. So you learn to make those notes sound out clearly, and who cares if your fingers brush against other strings or deaden strings that aren't being played? Likewise, when playing a chord, you don't have to play all four strings, especially in the beginning, but it will be true of your whole mandolin career. Knowing that, you can adjust your fingers to get a clean sound from the two or three strings you intend to play for a chordal harmony sound.

4. When sounding out the notes of a chord individually in order to test for dead notes, start with the note fretted closest toward the bridge. Get that one right, then check the next note behind that, etc. Understand that it doesn't matter if your finger touches a string behind the point it is fretted at. Hopefully that sentence is understandable; it can be an eye-opening point to a newbie trying to get a clean chordal sound. If what I'm getting at here isn't clear, ask for clarification.

5. Equally important as persevering is to believe that you can do it. You can learn to play cleanly. Never tell yourself that you can't.

[HonketyHank]

Yep.

Willie Pic

LOL.

Nice advice on getting those chords.

Me? I think I can, I think I can. I know I can, I know I can. Some day real soon now.

[Bertram Henze]

At last, there's a guitar even I could do barre chords on

Coming from violin, my early perception of the mandolin as a pure melody instrument never raised the question of how to cram more than one finger into a place that could hold one finger. When I went on to do the same on TB, the longer stretches led me even further away, and finally arriving at doublestops on the wide Fylde OM fretboard brought me no nearer to even considering playing chords on a mandolin. This quest is lost on me, I'm afraid.

[Ivan Kelsall]

Many years ago,i went to Manchester UK's old concert hall,The Free Trade Hall,to see & hear the famous Spanish Classical Guitarist,Andre Segovia. I was only 3 rows from the front of the stage, right in front of where he was seated & i could see that his fingers were a tad on the stubby side. I was watching his left hand & marvelling as to how he could stretch those fingers for far.While i was watching,during one incredible stretch to make a chord,he just moved his pinky one fret further up the neck !!.

For most of us,if we practice what we want to achieve in the correct way,we'll get there as well. Not to try in the first place is the first step on the road to failure,
Ivan

[Beanzy]

I still play my 1” nut Calace, and the KM150 but there are a shed load of compromises forced on my playing just by the fact that the finger fretting( yes I know well how to fret) are touching adjacent courses. It’s just a fact that something that’s too big to fit in the space available won’t go no matter how careful you are about placement & you can only shuffle fingers out of the way so much before it begins to be come apparent to the ear. So for some people they need to get the mandolin adapted if they are to achieve certain techniques. The relief of going over to a 33mm nut was huge for me, with some other changes it enabled me to attempt things like allowing the centre courses to ring while fretting adjacent courses, something impossible to do cleanly before. Obviously where those techniques and compromises are only becomes apparent once you begin to need them. Like I say you can get by by avoiding them and compromising your playing, but of you’re a fat fingered freddy you may need to adapt the machinery to suit, or maybe choose one of the larger mandolin family as your ‘expert’ instrument keeping the mandolin for the more accessible pieces.

[William Smith]

I'm thinking on cutting/separating the web meat in between my ring and pinky finger "left fretting hand of course", after it heals with hopefully no nerve damage I'll be unstoppable! Look out world.

[Mark Gunter]

i'm thinking on cutting/separating the web meat in between my ring and pinky finger "left fretting hand of course", after it heals with hopefully no nerve damage i'll be unstoppable! Look out world.

ooouuuuccccchhh!

[Bertram Henze]

I'm thinking on cutting/separating the web meat in between my ring and pinky finger "left fretting hand of course", after it heals with hopefully no nerve damage I'll be unstoppable! Look out world.

Look out yourself. But you were only in fun, I'm sure.

[William Smith]

Yes I'm a psycho but a full functioning psycho so I was just kidding! But I have seen that if you had the $$ what could be done-example I seen a guy that was short so he wanted to be taller so he got his leg bones stretched over many surgeries and lots of $ so now he is taller! That's mental!

[Willie Poole]

Like ballet dancers that get the tendons in their legs cut so they can do all of the complicated moves...Not for me, I took a long time to be able to stretch the long chords on a guitar and mandolin but practice will get you there, Ivan has a good saying that if you don`t try that is the first step toward failure, quite true Ivan...

[Beanzy]

I think we’re talking about fingers being to fat here, not stretches. That’s possibly for another thread. Otherwise people will keep posting about trying to stretch rather than the issue of fat fingers. You can have massive hands and still not have fat fingers.
I had one person semi seriously tell me I could always get the tipsnarrowed with surgery! I’d prefer to spend the money on a mandola, less risk.

[CES]

The other thing to remember is that, especially way up the neck, getting fingers between the frets is physically impossible for most people. Playing fret 20 on the e string, for example, I'm at least touching nineteen, and may even be close to 18 (will try to remember to look later). Just have to make sure your pressure point and angle give you the note at the fret you want...

[farmerjones]

Wha'd they do to willy !?!?!?!? He's huuuge!!!!

[Pete Summers]

When I saw this picture of Willie my first thought went to the oft-heard complaint or fear that maybe one's fingers are incapable of playing mandolin. In most cases, that's not true ... though it may seem really difficult to get clean sound when starting out.

I remember when I started on guitar many years ago, how difficult it was to finger a chord and get clean sound without deadening strings, much less being able to change chords smoothly in time with the beat! In the beginning, I had to reference a method book chord diagram, carefully place my fingers, play each string separately and try to micro-adjust the fingers as necessary to get rid of any dead note. It was a bit grueling when I think about it. Been so long ago it's easy to forget those days.

When I began to learn mandolin in earnest, a bit over two years ago, there were similar difficulties due to (1) unfamiliar chord shapes, and (2) smaller scale of everything. After all this time, I'm beginning to be able to hold a melody note on, say, the A string and still be able to have the E string ring when I play it. Chords are another matter; I can make them and switch them on time with the few I've really gotten down, but learning new chord shapes is still pretty difficult just because it's all new on the mandolin.

Listing here my own thoughts on big fingers playing tiny mandolins. Maybe something here will help somebody. And by all means, add your own two cents to the discussion.

1. Practice makes perfect. Okay, so that's kind of a pat statement; sorry, but it is true. Remembering how tough it was to learn guitar chords as a beginner as opposed to how easy and second nature they are now, encourages me that if I persevere, any mandolin-playing-problems I have now will be resolved in time. No matter how difficult it seems now, or how torturous it feels to finger chords and get the strings to ring, eventually it will become easy and not worthy of a second thought, if I persevere.

2. Others can, so can I. Think of Mike Marshall and other sausage-fingered mandolin enthusiasts and virtuosos you've seen who can do it. If they can learn to play with the handicap of big or fat fingers, so can I. It can help to ask them how they dealt with it starting out and what advice they have for beginners.

3. You don't have to play all the strings all the time. When playing melody, you're typically playing a string of single notes. So you learn to make those notes sound out clearly, and who cares if your fingers brush against other strings or deaden strings that aren't being played? Likewise, when playing a chord, you don't have to play all four strings, especially in the beginning, but it will be true of your whole mandolin career. Knowing that, you can adjust your fingers to get a clean sound from the two or three strings you intend to play for a chordal harmony sound.

4. When sounding out the notes of a chord individually in order to test for dead notes, start with the note fretted closest toward the bridge. Get that one right, then check the next note behind that, etc. Understand that it doesn't matter if your finger touches a string behind the point it is fretted at. Hopefully that sentence is understandable; it can be an eye-opening point to a newbie trying to get a clean chordal sound. If what I'm getting at here isn't clear, ask for clarification.

5. Equally important as persevering is to believe that you can do it. You can learn to play cleanly. Never tell yourself that you can't.

Excellent advice. I would just add a number 6. Learn to hold the instrument correctly. It's not a small guitar so it can't be held like most people hold a guitar. Check the Mike Marshall video on holding a mandolin:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmagoBQunZI

[Ivan Kelsall]

Bluegrasser78 - A friend of mine did exactly that - by accident of course. He was using a box cutter to cut a strip of carpet & the blade slipped off the edge of the steel rule he was using, & almost severed his thumb.

I think that i was talking about 'stubby' fingers ('short & fat' if you like), & making the point that even with fingers like that,you can get there if you try !. On a mandolin,being a small instrument,very often the opposite comes into play - large hands & long fingers & trying to cram 'em into short fret spaces. I have that problem,but i taught myself how to overcome it,like most of us do,
Ivan

[Bertram Henze]

Y'all better keep your webs between fingers - with sea levels rising, you'll survive (and threads on humidification will die out).