Cleaning/protecting a 1902-1904 Gibson

[dumpsternaut]

Greetings,

Turns out Mum's old mandolin collecting dust atop a shelf for decades is a genuine Gibson A-style mandolin with the serial number 2777. I have no reason to think this is any type of forgery; even though the main decal is missing (I got the number from looking inside near the neck) I know the instrument's ownership in this family dates back to at least the early 1900's and I don't see anything consistent with forgery in the archives.

I have been growing in luthier abilities, am something of a machinist by trade, and have specialized in being a premium archery bowyer (wood), so I am entrusting myself with the care of this item, particularly since I am a student of banjo and would love to lay down tracks or jam with folks who may be surprised to see this gem pop out of my gear as an afterthought, when my main instrument is a $500 learner banjo.

If there's one thing I've learned with instruments is to not just run with one's first instinct (it's worth the time to check facts and opinions of experts). I did search a bit but have not yet readily run across these bits:

1) It is caked with dust and after I brush off the bulk, what should I use to gently clean it? My first instinct would be very-slightly damp (barely moistened, more like "humid") distilled water rag (yes/no?) and then I have no clue what else to use on it. I have a premium violin and stringed instrument cleaner but no doubt that's not the ticket (it even says not to use on cracks and, while this instrument is not cracked, there is a foggy area of aging that under microscopy looks a little like infinitesimal wrinkles or micro-fissures). I was sure someone here would have some advice or a link.

2) It appears fully, structurally sound. My brother was wondering if a mandolin like this should be dismantled and reassembled by a seasoned luthier before stringing it because he wondered if the 100-year-old glues would sustain string tension and use, but luckily I have not seen anything like that online and it appears fine.

I am not really trying to get this ready to sell for top dollar, just methodically get it ready for use.

I thank you for any pointers especially how to clean and protect it (is it heinous to just prepare it for light use without refinishing it?)
It has such a nice, thin, matte finish... almost like bare wood.

[pops1]

you are correct, damp cloth and wipe off. I would look inside the sound hole and make sure the brace is glued to the top and string it up and play it. There are many 100 year old mandolins out there being played without a luthier taking them apart first.

[Jess L.]

... (is it heinous to just prepare it for light use without refinishing it?)
It has such a nice, thin, matte finish...

Refinish no no no. Refinish = bad. Almost always. I wouldn't even consider refinishing it.

For one thing, that would automatically cut its resale value in half, or thereabouts... at least that's what I keep reading elsewhere on this site.

For another thing, it would lose all its charm and aged appearance. Shiny new perfectly-finished instruments are as common as dirt, they can be found anywhere in all price ranges low to super high. But a vintage finish has its own appeal, especially when it's real and not an imitation 'relic' finish. Also, a new finish might change the tone (sound) of the instrument, and it might not necessarily be an improvement.

IMO, FWIW, YMMV, etc.

[William Smith]

Do not take apart! Check out the internal bracing to make sure its not loose, clean her up string with some light gauge strings tune her and enjoy! Some set up is required.
I've read that the early Gibson's have hollow necks so you may want extra light strings? Since its been drying out for 100 years? Humidify for a few days. You should post some good pix close ups etc and we can tell ya more, more than likely. Is the neck straight? A lot of those old ones had a slight upward bow toward the headstock.
Also you would know if there are weak joints, there is a thing to check for we call it well I do Gibsonitis- the back will shrink, usually the back away from the sides at the lower bout. I've had 20's and 30's Gibsons with that problem.

[allenhopkins]

1. The number stamped by the neck block is what Gibson called a factory order number (FON); it identified the batch of instruments that went through the manufacturing process together. I don't have an exact reference source here, but since Gibson FON's finished up around 3600 in 1916, I'd say "mid-teens." The individual serial number would have been written on a paper label glued to the inside back of the mandolin, opposite the sound hole; since you don't mention a label, I assume it's gotten detached and lost over the years.

2. A Gibson mandolin of that vintage wouldn't have had a decal on the headstock; it would have had "The Gibson" inlaid in mother-of-pearl. The fact that this one doesn't have a logo indicates it was a Model A, the least expensive of the Gibson A-model mandolins of the time; "plain A's" had no inlay, while models from the A-1 up did.

3. The "micro-fissures" you see under magnification are probably what are termed "finish checking," the deterioration of the outer layer of finish from age, use, and environmental conditions. They aren't structural, and won't impair future use of the mandolin. The advice to clean gently with minimal moisture is good, but don't be overly timid; if the mandolin's survived a century, rubbing it with a cloth won't make it fall apart.

4. No dismantling, no refinishing; both bad ideas. Many a 'teens Gibson is still being played now. However, while I respect your plan to handle your own repairs and adjustments, I would recommend a visit to a good instrument repair shop, one that has some expertise in mandolins -- especially vintage ones -- for a quick hands-on evaluation. Old Gibson carved-tops often lose some of the top arch over time, and they have only one internal top brace, a large one just below the sound hole. This can loosen with age, and when the mandolin's brought up to string tension, the top can flatten significantly.

5. You don't mention whether the mandolin has all its parts, such as pickguard, original bridge, tailpiece cover, et. al. If you were to post a picture of it here, that would also help us in ID-ing and evaluating it.

Good luck! My first Gibson, and first mandolin, was a 'teens A-1 that came down in my family; it needed repair, but after I had it fixed, I got lots of good music out of it. Hope you get the same.

[dumpsternaut]

Thank you all so much for your kind replies. It does have the inlaid The Gibson on the headstock (I meant to refer to the missing internal label when I said decal)... everything is in place except a slice of the the tortoise shell pick guard disintegrated like peanut brittle, but only where it contacts one or two glue lines along its little reinforcement beam (weird; the rest of the guard is hard as a rock), so I took it off (came right off the nails). It's very solid, intact, complete, and in extremely good shape. I can't wait to photo it shortly pending more cleanup and share its details.

I'm glad I didn't put on the medium strings at first; I'll get extra lights and ask if anyone nearby has antique experience. I trust myself with you guys more than just the disinterested local smiley-face-ukulele specialists etc. (actually the ones I joke of just told me not to use their Paganini violin cleaner and do research, never even offered to have a look). The neck has no apparent anomalies but I didn't like the fact all the strings had broken except the third pair still under some tension. I worried this had a twisting effect but nothing to be seen with the naked eye which usually I'd be trained to generally see, working QC on angles and lines for precision parts in an aerospace com machine shop. I haven't measured or gauged anything yet.

It has a single decoration around the sound hole striped like rope. The body is solid brown otherwise. Pics ASAP and thanks again!!

I'm trying very hard not to trade it for a nicer banjo; I'd regret it, and keeping it I can grow and enjoy , and also demonstrate to family I cared for it and fixed it up. I remember it sounding very nice as a little boy before we moved in the mid-70's. Mum left it for Hawaiian ukulele because it was easier to tune, which she still plays at 88 years old (this Valentines day). She discarded the Snark tuner we got her, though, because she assumed it was inoperative when she held it up (unattached) and sung "Tra-la-laaaa" to which it read nothing XP

[Ivan Kelsall]

Remove all the strings. Check the neck for any sign of longitudinal warping or lateral twisting. If it's fine,then clean the body with a damp cloth after brushing off any loose dust & wipe it dry. As a woodworker,i'll leave it to you to decide on what sort of oil to wipe the fingerboard over with to restore the colour of it - after polishing the frets with a Silver polishing cloth.

Check the tuners to see if they're working ok,& if required ( i can't spell necessary ),use a TINY drop of a suitable lubricant to oil them - look here :- http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Musi...geartune1.html

You then need to re-string it & make sure that the bridge is the right height (action) & set in the right position to give you a true octave at the 12th fret. Only when you start to play it will you find anything else that might need adjusting.

The crumbling pick guard that you mention might need some attention though,
Ivan

[multidon]

Does it have its original case, or was it stored in any sort of case over the years? Or was it displayed on that shelf without a case? If it was kept out if the case all that time, that’s probably a good thing. As you noted, the pick guard is deteriorating. In those days, they were made of celluloid, one of the very early kinds of plastic. Celluloid is not stable and deteriorated with time, and many instruments from that era stored in cases with the pickguard attached sustained damage when the deteriorating pickguard “off-gassed”. The resulting fumes remain trapped in the case and corrode the metal parts, as well as discoloring parts of the finish.

I’m sure we all would love to se you post some photos!

My recommendation is to keep that original pickguard sealed up in a ziplock bag. Don’t throw it away, it should be kept as it is original, and should be included in any future sale. If you must have a pickguard, have a replica made of modern stable plastic, or better yet, just play without one.

[allenhopkins]

The single purfling ring around the soundhole probably indicates an A-1. You said a solid "brown" finish on the top; 'teens A-1's generally had what Gibson called a "golden orange" finish, what we now refer to as "pumpkin top." Not invariably, but a brown-top 'teens A-1 might be a bit unusual.

Pics will tell us more.

[Cliff Seruntine]

Nothing to add to all the good advice here except that's a really exciting find. Congratulations!

Off to inspect the attic of my 200 year old home . . . wonder if there's an old Gibson up there waiting for me . . .

[Jim Garber]

everything is in place except a slice of the the tortoise shell pick guard disintegrated like peanut brittle, but only where it contacts one or two glue lines along its little reinforcement beam (weird; the rest of the guard is hard as a rock), so I took it off (came right off the nails).
<snip>
I'm glad I didn't put on the medium strings at first; I'll get extra lights and ask if anyone nearby has antique experience.

I think Allen is right that it should date from around mid-teens and not 1902-4. One from that earier era would have had a pickguard inlaid into the top. A teens one would have a suspended pickguard. Some of those did disintegrate -- sort of crystallize due to the instability of the plastic.

If it is a mid-teens and it is structurally sound, there is no reason to use ultra-light strings. Gibsons are built to take mediums at least.

[fatt-dad]

You have received great advice so far. I'm just sharing. . .

I have owned/played a Gibson, oval-hole, a-model for over 30 years. Sure, I'm no pro, but I play a lot! When I got my mandolin, it had a warped neck and some of the glue seams were open. In my case I paid for somebody to do that work - also to re-glue the transverse brace under the bridge. I love my mandolin! It's been very stable over the decades and I use typical mandolin strings on it (i.e., J74s).

I've cleaned the junk off of my mandolin using lighter fluid, which is primarily naptha. That said, how many times do you need to do that? In your case maybe once?

I usually dampen a microfiber and wipe.

Do not throw away the pickguard clamp! I mean you may remove it, but keep it handy. These little gems are hard to find and have value!

Enjoy your mandolin. I'm sure it's great!

f-d

[rcc56]

If the number 2777 is on the neck block, it is indeed a factory order number [FON] and corresponds with the year 1914.

If the instrument is very dirty, it can be cleaned with cotton rags moistened, not saturated, with water. Use a new section of rag for each stroke to avoid scratches from the grit accumulated by the previous stroke [it can be abrasive]. Do not saturate the instrument.

Naphtha can also be used, and is actually a better choice if the grime is not hard or thick.

You CAN finish with a high grade violin polish, but use only a few drops applied to a cotton cloth.

As previously stated, the brace behind the soundhole should be checked. These are very frequently loose on old Gibsons, especially if they have been in storage for a long time. Also take a good look at the seams between the back and sides and top and sides, especially near where the neck meets the body. Loose bindings near the neck are a sign that the sides are separating from the neck block. That is a difficult repair which may require a gluing jig and is best not attempted by a beginner.

I usually string these mandolins 10 or 10 1/2-14-24-38. If you use nickel strings, you can go up to .040 on the bass strings. [Nickel strings have a lower tension than bronze].

Hide glue, correctly mixed and applied, can easily last 150 years, sometimes much more, if not attacked by mold or exposed to constant high humidity conditions. Taking these instruments apart is to be avoided at all costs except in cases of last resort. In 35 years of repairing instruments [but only part time, I will admit], I have only found it necessary to remove the back on 3 or 4 mandolins.

If the pickguard is even starting to deteriorate, it should be replaced. Do not reuse any of the old plastic parts when you make the new pickguard. The metal clamp should be reused if it is in good working condition.