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Thread: No Power Tool Mandolin

  1. #251
    Registered User Marc Berman's Avatar
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    Default Re: No Power Tool Mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by Pranav Ajay Warrier View Post
    What did you mean by nope?
    You asked if the sound would change if you formed the sides around the soundboard.
    Marc B.

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  3. #252

    Default Re: No Power Tool Mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Jacobson View Post
    That's how I do it. It's not "a bit harder to clamp"... it's fiendishly difficult to do. Clamping isn't the problem. Getting the joint perfect is the problem, all the way around the perimeter, with two separate pieces of wood which are not touching.

    Here's an article about how I do it.
    http://martinjacobson.com/id/shop-an...tegral-binding

    In woodworking, you want to have structural joints, and decorative joints. And if you need a structural joint, which is also a decorative (visible) joint, and which bends around in multiple axes... then it might take you a thousand hours or so to figure out how to do it. At least that's how much time it took for me to figure out how to do it.

    No pine for necks. It's not strong enough, and it's too dynamic (unstable) with weather changes. Oak or maple are both good choices. Oak will be heavier, and maple will be easier to work with. I use a 1/4" carbon fiber reinforcement for the neck, but a 1/4" steel rod would be OK too, though sub-optimal in terms of mass.
    I think that's really cool. It unfortunately defeats the purpose of my question though. I wanted to hand bend sides without a mold, like classical
    guitar luthier do. I felt that it would be cool and easier, to form the sides around the front, glue together, attach the neck, and then glue on the back but put a little resting ridge for the back to sit on. How does that sound?

  4. #253

    Default Re: No Power Tool Mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by Pranav Ajay Warrier View Post
    I think that's really cool. It unfortunately defeats the purpose of my question though. I wanted to hand bend sides without a mold, like classical
    guitar luthier do. I felt that it would be cool and easier, to form the sides around the front, glue together, attach the neck, and then glue on the back but put a little resting ridge for the back to sit on. How does that sound?
    Classical guitar luthiers do use molds. For positioning during gluing, if nothing else. It might not be the whole shape, but something to "indicate" your parts to where they need to be is essential, even if your parts are perfect (which they never are).
    The problem with using the top is that it's so thin, it won't do much to control the wonkiness of the rim (which is inevitable, until it's glued to something). Also, you need significant glue surface area to attach the sides to the rim. The thickness of the rim itself is not enough. Plus it will be a real beast of a time to get a completely hand-bent rim to perfectly match the perimeter of your top.

    You could do something similar to what Nigel Forster does, in the Sobell style which is similar to a Classical guitar Spanish heel, in some ways. (I hope you don't mind me posting your picture, Nigel...)
    Click image for larger version. 

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  6. #254
    Registered Muser dang's Avatar
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    Default Re: No Power Tool Mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by Dale Ludewig View Post
    ...Information on how to do almost anything is a few mouse clicks away. And from your energetic youthful view (I wish I had more of it), it is easy to kind of think that acquiring the actual understanding and skills to "make stuff" has progressed as rapidly as the ability to find or view descriptions of the same. That's not reality in spite of the enthusiasm of youth. I admire and encourage you. I had similar aspirations....
    I think this is true, and it’s not as easy as the professionals make it look in the videos!

    Marty’s time lapse videos are an exaggerated example of this, he makes it look fast, simple, and easy - but the hours and hours spent on his art can be seen in the finished product. (I don’t have time to find one and post it right now or I would)

    Good luck Pranav!
    I should be pickin' rather than postin'

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  8. #255

    Default Re: No Power Tool Mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by dang View Post
    I think this is true, and it’s not as easy as the professionals make it look in the videos!

    Marty’s time lapse videos are an exaggerated example of this, he makes it look fast, simple, and easy - but the hours and hours spent on his art can be seen in the finished product. (I don’t have time to find one and post it right now or I would)

    Good luck Pranav!
    Yep, the problem is that I won't know what it's like until I spend tons of time myself on this. Even words can't tell us how much work this is. I will just have to learn it the hard way... AKA the only way.

  9. #256
    Registered User Tom Haywood's Avatar
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    Default Re: No Power Tool Mandolin

    There is one thing you can count on. There will be mistakes made in thinking and doing, there will be pieces of wood that do something unexpected, there will be tools that turn out to not be the best ones for the task. The deeper experience is figuring out how to fix these "setbacks" and not let them derail your goal. When you see how common this is to the process, it's amazing that these things can be built in factories. The goal of building something that sounds and plays better than the Rogue is very do-able.
    Tom

    "Feel the wood."
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  11. #257

    Default Re: No Power Tool Mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Haywood View Post
    There is one thing you can count on. There will be mistakes made in thinking and doing, there will be pieces of wood that do something unexpected, there will be tools that turn out to not be the best ones for the task. The deeper experience is figuring out how to fix these "setbacks" and not let them derail your goal. When you see how common this is to the process, it's amazing that these things can be built in factories. The goal of building something that sounds and plays better than the Rogue is very do-able.
    I agree. Also, I just wanted to let you know, but Georgia is one of my favorite states. I am sure you're immersed in music where you live .

  12. #258
    Registered User Timbofood's Avatar
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    Default Re: No Power Tool Mandolin

    Like a guy said to me years ago...
    “Fast, Cheap, or Right, pick any two. Fast and cheap won’t be right, cheap and right won’t be fast and fast and right will be far from cheap!”
    And especially on a first build, expect things to go sideways from time to time, set backs are more the rule than exception in a builders early products, this is how we all learn.
    Making moulds is a good way to be able to find the shape which serves your purpose best. Freehand bending might sound like fun but, you’re talking about graduate level skills, take small steps early and the product will improve as more are built. Going too fast will end in disaster and damaged hands. Have you taken some found material and made any boxes yet or, have you cast those suggestions to the wind? Just curious.
    Timothy F. Lewis
    "If brains was lard, that boy couldn't grease a very big skillet" J.D. Clampett

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  14. #259

    Default Re: No Power Tool Mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by Timbofood View Post
    Like a guy said to me years ago...
    “Fast, Cheap, or Right, pick any two. Fast and cheap won’t be right, cheap and right won’t be fast and fast and right will be far from cheap!”
    And especially on a first build, expect things to go sideways from time to time, set backs are more the rule than exception in a builders early products, this is how we all learn.
    Making moulds is a good way to be able to find the shape which serves your purpose best. Freehand bending might sound like fun but, you’re talking about graduate level skills, take small steps early and the product will improve as more are built. Going too fast will end in disaster and damaged hands. Have you taken some found material and made any boxes yet or, have you cast those suggestions to the wind? Just curious.
    Like I said, my left hand is unusable because where there is an artery right where I got my stitches, and it was on my joint, so I will have to wait a bit to get started again. I will not be casting the suggestions to the wind however, I clearly need practice.

  15. #260
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    Default Re: No Power Tool Mandolin

    I originally was supportive of the OP but...as John Paul Sartre said..."The only reality is action." I was intrigued by the OP at first and was lured along by the naivety of the topic---it has grown tiresome and boring. If, indeed, the OP does exist as a motivated builder of a mandolin, he needs to get off of his duff and start building (even though he now claims the inability to use both of his hands). In my many years of teaching writing at the college level I was careful to reward students for actually producing a story...not fantasizing about the story. A writer writes, a scammer/obfuscator talks about what they intend to do with no actual and real action. Come on OP--get something done and stop all of the blather.

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  17. #261
    Registered User artboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: No Power Tool Mandolin

    Irving Sloane wrote built classical guitars and wrote books on his construction methods, and he mostly used hand tools.
    Chris
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  19. #262

    Default Re: No Power Tool Mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by artboy View Post
    Irving Sloane wrote built classical guitars and wrote books on his construction methods, and he mostly used hand tools.
    Thank you, I found some of his stuff. I'll check it out.

  20. #263
    Registered User Bill Snyder's Avatar
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    Default Re: No Power Tool Mandolin

    Take a look at Brian Dean's website. http://www.labraid.ca/ The man builds with no power tools. He holds some very strong prejudices against the use of them. I think that (directly or indirectly) has a lot to do with the fact that he no longer posts on Mandolin Cafe.
    Bill Snyder

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  22. #264
    Registered User Tom Haywood's Avatar
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    Default Re: No Power Tool Mandolin

    I believe in using mostly hand tools to build these instruments. My first couple of mandolins I proudly claimed to have been made with only hand tools. But then I realized that it just wasn't true and isn't really possible. I purchased the wood. It is almost a certainty that the trees were felled and taken from the forest using power equipment, and the the logs were milled and dried using power equipment. I purchased the hardware. It is a certainty that the fret wire, tuners and tailpiece were made with power equipment. I use a battery powered drill to inlay the side dots. I suspect the MOP inlay material is processed with power equipment. I buy pre-slotted fret boards for standard scale lengths because the CNC operated equipment is more accurate and so the mandolin sounds better. Heck, I even use an electric lamp on the work bench to see what I'm doing, and a propane torch to bend the sides. So, there is really nothing on the mandolin that is made completely without power tools. I added a bench sander, a drill press and a band saw to my shop, and these vastly reduce the time and effort for a number of tasks. That leaves more time and energy available to focus on the things that benefit from hand work. Finally, I like to french polish the finish, but I remember a teacher asking if I thought those furniture makers in France in the 1600s would have used spray equipment if they had it. The lesson learned was that there are many, many aspects of mandolin building that result in well-earned pride of accomplishment regardless of what tools you use.
    Tom

    "Feel the wood."
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  24. #265

    Default Re: No Power Tool Mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Snyder View Post
    Take a look at Brian Dean's website. http://www.labraid.ca/ The man builds with no power tools. He holds some very strong prejudices against the use of them. I think that (directly or indirectly) has a lot to do with the fact that he no longer posts on Mandolin Cafe.
    Why would he stop posting on MC because he doesn't like using power tools?

  25. #266
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: No Power Tool Mandolin

    I don't think that's the reason he stopped posting. Carry on.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

  26. #267

    Default Re: No Power Tool Mandolin

    Sawed out my back, need to figure out a way to flatten it out. It's an inch thick right now. To help that, my vise broke too, so I can't even saw it thinner safely. I'll try to find access to a planer.

  27. #268
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    Default Re: No Power Tool Mandolin

    How about posting a photo?

  28. #269

    Default Re: No Power Tool Mandolin

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Quote Originally Posted by pelone View Post
    How about posting a photo?

  29. #270

    Default Re: No Power Tool Mandolin

    My parents gave me an idea... Buy a cutting board that's fairly thin. Cutting boards also tend to be quarter sawn hardwoods, so it would be perfect. Opinions?

  30. #271

    Default Re: No Power Tool Mandolin

    My wife just picked up a couple new cutting boards made from bamboo. They are laminated in one inch strips side by side by about 3/8 inch thick. I'm not sure how it would sound, but it does look pretty. Has anyone ever used bamboo for mandolins?

  31. #272

    Default Re: No Power Tool Mandolin

    Bamboo would make good back and sides, I think.

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  33. #273
    Adrian Minarovic
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    Default Re: No Power Tool Mandolin

    Yamaha did make guitar some series out of bamboo, though I'm not sure if it was just veneer... and it was on both top and back. Sounded OK, perhaps a bit harsh because of the top. With spruce it would sound more refined.
    Adrian

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  35. #274
    Adrian Minarovic
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    Default Re: No Power Tool Mandolin

    BTW, Pranav, did you receive the drawings, yet?
    Adrian

  36. #275

    Default Re: No Power Tool Mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by HoGo View Post
    BTW, Pranav, did you receive the drawings, yet?
    Unfortunately, not yet. I'll PM you when they come.

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