Eastman Violins for Fiddles?

[Jess L.]

All that being said I leave here coming to the conclusion that playing fiddle costs 6 times more than playing mandolin according to Mandolin Cafe math.

And the Mandolin costs 2x that of a guitar. So .... "V= 2G x 3" or "V = 12G" hahaha

Lol! But I think that equation needs a 6, not a 3. Something like this:

V = 2G x 6
V = 12G

[Jim Garber]

When a beginner comes to Mandolin Cafe and asks about starting out, for a new instrument many recommend a Kentucky KM-150 or The Loar or equivalent with the caveat that they should either buy from a good shop who supplies setup or to set aside that money to do it. Others recommend buying used to save mire money.

When I first started playing fiddle I bought an old fiddle from a junk shop across the street from my college apartment. It cost me $25 and then another $40 to set it up with strings and make it playable. Granted that was decades ago. Still, most folks I know who fiddle get themselves an old one. There are thousands of them out there. Go to any bluegrass or old time festival and there will inevitably be a few booths of folks selling used fiddles from a $100 up. Those and a simpe student-level bow will be more than adequate to start. You don't need to spend thousands of dollars.

As you progress, no doubt you will want something better but you can start out at a budget level. of course, if you can afford a brand new $3000 violin then do it but I don't really think you have to start there. I am sure that the $500 Eastman violins are just fine and even some other student level ones.

I would say, if you do want to get into fiddle and have a wad of money, if you do want to progress spend the extra money on some lessons with a teacher who plays the genre of music you want to learn. You can learn with a moderately priced instrument and bow.

[Ranald]

I'm a fiddler. Just a few points regarding this discussion:

1) Plenty of adults, even seniors, take up fiddle, and some become very good at it. I've heard many.

2) I've heard excellent left-handed fiddlers. Ashley MacIsaac, who reverses his fiddle position but uses standard tuning (i.e., his strings are the same as how a right-hander places them), is only one.

3) You don't have to use standard classical position to play. Look at pictures of fiddlers (especially old photos and paintings) and you'll find varied positions. People who haven't taken formal lessons tend to develop their own style. The classical position has been developed for good reason. However, David Greenberg, an outstanding concert violinist, uses a traditional Cape Breton bowing position when he fiddles, as he's worked out that bowing Cape Breton style works better for Cape Breton music. Older people may find that they have to adjust their position according to their physical needs. Teachers sometimes expect fifty-year-olds to twist their wrists like six-year-olds -- not an option for many of us as we age. I had to make major adjustments after breaking a wrist a few years back. If you take lessons, try to find someone used to teaching adults, and tell them when you can't do something.

4) Use a specialized violin shop, and a luthier who specializes in violins, if you don't want some poor soul experimenting on your instrument (I've learned from my mistakes).

5) Basically, the difference between fiddles and violins is the style of music, fiddling being about traditional dance music, country music, etc. When the symphonic violinist refers to his violin as a "fiddle", it's like the Rolls Royce owner saying, "Fetch the jalopy, Jeeves." The low-bridge set-up is only for certain styles of fiddling. It's not common in Cape Breton, and, in my experience, hinders Cape Breton fiddling. Fiddlers can often read music, though many excellent fiddlers (e.g., Calvin Vollrath, Donal Leahy) can't. Having been around fiddlers since I was born 65 years ago, I'd say that if you have sheet music stand in front of you, you're learning or practicing a tune, not fiddling. To be a fiddler, you have to commit the tune to heart and make it yours.

6) I'm not sure why you want a new fiddle. There are plenty of used violins in the world, and unlike some instruments, their quality doesn't decrease if they're properly taken care of. In my neck of the woods, it's good to use an in-case humidifier in the winter when homes are dry, but remove it in the hot, humid months, though old-timers never heard of such a thing. I'd suggest buying a used instrument. If you're after a beginner violin, there are plenty available. As violin students upgrade, they usually have no great affection for the cheap Chinese instrument they started with. I can't see any great advantage to buying a new instrument. I used to rent-to-own used undersize violins for my kids when I was a student and they were small (from Long & McQuade, a Canadian music chain). It was a good deal, though probably not available everywhere. However, in localities with string music programs in the schools, it's not hard to find used violins.

Good luck with your musical ventures.

[Folkmusician.com]

I am mostly out of the bowed instrument market now, but there was a time when that was most of my business..... In the past 20 years a lot has changed, and I am sure if we go back further (before my entry into it), it would be even more the case.

Where China is still not quite there in mandolins, guitars, etc., that is not the case with Violins. China now has a large percentage of the world's best violin makers. I know for a fact, that some well known players own these (I supplied them).

Prices for quality instruments have come way down! The same with bows. In the past, most students played a fiberglass bow, now they are using wood and carbon fiber, that are much better, and don't really cost more.

While you are pretty safe shopping with a $500 budget, if you know what to look for, you can even lower this down to $300ish. This is going to be more hit and miss though and it will involve more risk. A good local string shop won't be profitable selling for that.

Fiddle and Violin are the same thing, though a "Fiddle Setup" mostly refers to less radius on the bridge. My experiences on the West Coast, is that more and more fiddle players are classically trained and sticking with the standard violin setup and Perlon strings. The average skill level of the players has risen quickly. I would attribute this to the spillover from classical violin, which a lot of kids are pushed into. As they hit their late teens/early 20's they get interested in fiddling.

The best fiddle player I personally know (full-time professional), plays a Barcuss Berry. It isn't great, but she is awesome on stage!
Two others (local customers), also play fiddles that are average. One is also in the local Orchestra. I have setup these instruments and cut new bridges. The violins are good, but not the level you would think, considering the skill of the players.

Most fiddling doesn't require a top notch instrument. A well setup lower grade fiddle is just fine for most players, and not just beginners. Not to say, there is no advantage to stepping up, just that it is not a requirement.

It will be somewhere between difficult and impossible for a beginner to evaluate violins. You don't have to be able to play the thing, but you need to be familiar with them, at the least. This is where it is doubly important to deal with a good shop. There is a lot of advantage to buying from a local violin shop.

[Seter]

You can get a nice electric violin for much less money than an acoustic one. Of course, I suppose electric violins are frowned upon in many settings. I play an electric violin which is still fairly loud played acoustically which is how I normally practice; I think my neighbors are grateful I didn't choose an acoustic.

[Ranald]

You can get a nice electric violin for much less money than an acoustic one. Of course, I suppose electric violins are frowned upon in many settings. I play an electric violin which is still fairly loud played acoustically which is how I normally practice; I think my neighbors are grateful I didn't choose an acoustic.

I've heard great music on electric violins, but, in my experience, they sound much different than acoustic violins. Perhaps this is no longer true. Please let us know.

[Jim Garber]

Why would you buy and electric violin to save money unless you were planning to play electrified? There are plenty of decent sounding acoustic instruments at reasonable prices. Most budget electrics are inferior acoustically because they can be so. That is often tru with budget electric mandolins and even budget electric guitars.

[Mandobar]

The Bluegrass Shack sells some really nice fiddles well under $500. I started on one of these, and I still have it. Chinese fiddles can be quite expensive, and I have played some really nice ones. There is nothing wrong with an Eastman, Scott Cao, or Snow violin and a nice Coda Bow to start out with. I have quite a few carbon fiber bows, including a Glaser (which is not bad), but I like the Codas (my favorite being the Joule- which in fact was designed for a five string electric set up).

As for bows, Shar will send you up to 4 bows to demo for 7 days for $25. You send back the ones you don't want. They will also send you two instruments to demo. They are very knowledgeable, and not at all snobby.

Personally, we have a local fiddle builder who sells all kinds of stringed instruments, and also does rentals. I wish that I had found him sooner, but I am glad I did. I have two of his fiddles now. Great guy, and a good resource.

[farmerjones]

if I were to start over, I'd find out where all the school kids are getting their rental violins. I know of such a person locally. He repairs and sets them up before they go out for rentals. He also has a few (not new) for sale. Like good watches, it's better to shop the shop. That way you have good (live) support, and the start of a (live) network.

[Mandobar]

farmer jones is right. a good repair and set up person is worth their weight in gold.

[doc holiday]

"violin is really hard to start if you're over the age of 14 or so."

The other common statement. The fiddle isn't that hard.....after the first 10 years.....

[Mandobar]

"violin is really hard to start if you're over the age of 14 or so."

The other common statement. The fiddle isn't that hard.....after the first 10 years.....

I am about 18 months in, and force myself to go to jams with just the fiddle. You'd be surprised at how motivated one can be when jumping into the deep end of the "pool" only knowing how to doggie paddle.

[gtani7]

I have a Eastman viola purchased used from a violin teacher that is a very decent instrument in quality of wood, fit and finish and tone/response. I've also had a couple Eastman mandolins. i'm pretty sure the violin teacher selects her instruments from many more that she played so just ordering over the internet can be hit and miss.

If you're going to order over the internet, you could look at Shar Music's used or trade in instruments and other dealers like Johnson, Southwest and Gliga. They seem to have mostly satisfied customers in the violin forums. Also Fiddlers Green in Austin, I haven't purchased from them but they're a very reputable dealer.

In terms of cost, I would recommend trying a carbon fiber bow like Coda or JeanPaul or Cadenza that runs $200+ after you've been playing a few months and you may end up with a hybrid string set, a lot of sets like Dominant or Helicores come with a squeaky E.

[MissingString]

Lol! But I think that equation needs a 6, not a 3. Something like this:

V = 2G x 6
V = 12G

Appreciate the assist...my equation never caught up to my typing...

[rastamypasta]

I just wanted to give a quick update for all you helpful people. I went to the local violin shop and they were quite helpful and encouraging and also happened to sell Eastman violins. I was able to signup for a rent to own program for an Eastman VL200 which sells for about $1,100. The people at the shop said they really liked Eastman products and had numerous Eastman violins, violas, and cellos for sale. That being said, as some of you recommended, I plan on using my rent to own credit toward one of the many old used violins they had in stock because there is something charming about the thought of playing old time fiddle on an old fiddle. Thanks all- especially those of you that took the time to actually address my concerns about cost for starting (turns out you don't need to spend 3k on a starter violin) and the quality of Eastman violins. Now to get screeching...

[Ranald]

I'm glad you made your choice. Enjoy your fiddling.

[SincereCorgi]

I was able to signup for a rent to own program for an Eastman VL200 which sells for about $1,100.

I believe that's the full retail price. If you buy one, expect to pay about %70 of that.

[Ranald]

Here's Ann Lederman playing fiddle. She started as an adult. Too bad she didn't begin before 14, as someone insists you must -- perhaps she'd be good now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQvmHJTiahY

[gtani7]

Your first, very exciting!

Helps if an experienced violin player can try the bow and instrument. Violin setup is labor intensive: pegs, nut, planing the fingerboard (to give you something like a properly relieved fretted instrument neck), bridge, soundpost, tailpiece/afterlength, and most shops won't do all of that for an under $1k instrument (this according to family members /friends who have played seriously)

The other thing is that my Eastman case lock will once in a while refuse to unlatch, even tho I never lock it. Kind of annoying.

[Cochiti Don]

NFI: Another decent Chinese made "intermediate" violin/fiddle that seems comparable to Eastman is Snow. Similar comment to SincereCorgi, stepping up from the student model makes a difference.

We looked at a lot of violins for my 6th grade daughter at Johnson Strings and settled on the Snow 400 which had quality upgrades from their entry point instrument. Also agree a decent quality bow can make a massive difference and appears to have really increased the quality of tone compared to the previous one she was playing. We got her a CodaBow Prodigy. I think the violin and bow were about $1500 combined.

Also, we had a great experience buying a cello for my 8th grade son from Ronald Sachs Violins in the Southeast region. I'm down there frequently for work and was able to investigate. We felt like we got an awful lot of instrument for the money and would certainly use them again.

Good luck with your pursuits!

I had some fun playing different fiddles in a good violin shop recently. The snow 400 series was my choice too but I played it with a 400$ pernambuco bow. If I had bought both it would be around 2k.

[Patrick Hull]

I suggest you try Gianna Violins. I believe you can find them via their website. Not so sure about the location these days. Steve Perry owns the company and is a member here. I called him up and he sent me a 100 year old German trade violin which has served me for about 10 years, for a very reasonable price. I agree that a good bow is worth the investment. I found the best for me at this point was a carbon fiber bow for $200-ish. It is going to be difficult but if you just hang in there have fun and play through the difficulties you can likely be a player. However don’t make it even harder by purchasing a junk fiddle. Wish I had a nickel for every time someone asked me the difference between a violin and a fiddle and then told me a corny dumb joke. Have fun.

[Jim Garber]

I suggest you try Gianna Violins.

You are a little late to the dance. See Post 40 above.

[Patrick Hull]

You are a little late to the dance. See Post 40 above.

Oops. Better read the whole thing before chiming in.

[gspiess]

All this talk about fiddle playing tempted me to dig out my daughter's high school violin which has been tucked in a closet for the last 10 years. Once I got it tuned everything was going pretty well until my wife came into the room and demanded to know why I was torturing the cat.